Conspiracy and other legal traps

[Tom Sawyer]

There has been a tradition in the NH underground to not have a leader, especially at protests etc.

This is more than the fact not many here want to be told what to do.

Conspiracy is a very real threat that hangs over the head of the "leader", "organizer" etc.

I leave it to the legal beagles to debate and argue the finer points of law. Suffice it to say, there is a big difference between saying "I am going to go downtown and commit a criminal act." and "We should all go downtown and commit a criminal act, and here is how you should do it." etc

I see a lot of blindly walking forward, apparently without even being aware of the danger. The more experienced folks should help educate the less experienced in these areas.

The desire to "brand" events, has the upside of 'Hey look what we were able to pull off!'. The downside is people being brought up on felony charges and being compelled to bear witness against each other. I've been on the periphery of folks caught up in this kind of thing. The terror of being dragged in front of a Grand Jury and forced to give up your friends and associates.

Another danger is if someone is involved in a conspiracy, the actions of others can become your criminal liability. Look at Marc Emory's situation, he sold seeds and they tried to hang all the plants that others might have grown with them.

Anyway, I hope this doesn't fall on deaf ears. It also doesn't mean that people have to refrain from their acts of Civil Disobedience.

[Russell Kanning]

it makes sense for the guys to know what are the possibilities

[David]

Agreed, no leaders.  Just do stuff, and be welcoming of others that join with you.  Besides, leaderless actions are harder for the cops to destroy. 

[K. Darien Freeheart]

I'm not discounting what Tom is saying, but there's a simple nugget of truth there.

Eventually, if the state doesn't back down, the civil disobedience needed to stand against it WILL be felonious in nature.

Unfortunately, even within the liberty communities, the word "felony" scares people, especially those who like carrying guns legally.

The really, REALLY scary part is that while this tells me civil disobedience is needed and needed NOW, some people are reading the same message as "People should back off, because they might start calling "not listening to a cop's arbitrary diktat" a felonious act.

They well might. What then?

[Tom Sawyer]

If a person goes forward because they are brave or principled 

The point is to know what you might be getting into and not needlessly or recklessly expose yourself to danger. Even more important is to not, recklessly, expose others to danger. People need to think, before they risk others safety.

ie. "He is the leader/organizer of the event."

I assumed people understood that, several examples have shown me they don't.

[Lloyd Danforth]

When they ask you where your permit is, show them the First Amendment!
When they ask you who the leader is, everybody look a round and exclaim, "Where the Hell did Shorty go?"
And, don't get involved in conspiracies!

[Lloyd Danforth]

Whoops!

[Kat Kanning]

I did not know that. 

Hey, wanna go downtown and break some laws? 

[Tom Sawyer]

Kat is clearly the Agent Provocateur in this group! 

[bigmike]

I read through some legal mumbo jumbo regarding the elements needed to prove conspiracy as a cause of action to bring against someone, both in civil and criminal matters.

Not being a lawyer myself, my first impression is that it likely wouldn't fly. That doesn't necessarily mean I think at some point they might not try, but I think the state would have a hard time convincing a jury there was conspiracy beyond a reasonable doubt.

Thanks for the suggestion though Tom. It gave me something to consider that I hadn't already and I'll spend some time later this week looking over some case citations to see if my opinion is correct.

[jzacker]

All you need is an agreement to commit a criminal act in concert with one or more people.  You don't even need to perform or complete the act.  You just need the agreement.

[Tom Sawyer]

I can't remember who said it...
"I don't like to give my enemies the stick to beat me with." 

My point is if you do it cause you are aware of the danger... well, you're brave. If you do it with ignorance of the danger, it at best makes you naive, at worst a fool. I stay clear of fools.

Not to be negative... lots of upside in recent acts. I just was compelled to shout a warning.

I don't know the laws inside and out by any means...
I do know we live in a world that a woman got 10 years in prison for pointing across a room when asked "Where can I buy some acid."

[Kat Kanning]

Sounds like a good reason to protest the drug war.