How to fight taxing and spending?

[lildog]

I don't require any government services. Are you saying you want to force some of them on me?
I don't mind you having a government (or services) as long as people are free to opt out of it (or them).

So you don't value your freedom of speech that allows you to say such things?  Or your right to bear arms?  Or your freedom of religion?

If you don't have any ability to say "no" to a government, then you are left to beg to keep it in check.

You can say no to a government? it?s called packing your bags and moving out of the country that that particular government over sees.

In NH we have held the government in check better than other locations, but it is slowly bleeding people dry.

You asked how to fight taxing and spending and I am answering to the best of my ability.

Well you seem to be unable to differentiate between government and government services.  Without our constitution (which is the backbone of our government) we would have none of the freedoms we enjoy here.

I am a constitutionalist in that I feel we have a strong backbone upon which our country is founded.  It?s the government SERVICES that is the problem and I don?t see opting out of the entire system as the way to change that.

[Russell Kanning]

The guys that wrote the us constitution believed that our "rights" were natural or God given.

Did we not have rights like free speech or religion before the constitution was written? What happened during the time between when we defeated the British and the constitition was signed? Did residents of the states not have rights?

Ok then ...... what if someone like me or others do not want government services? Should the local government allow some people to opt out and not pay them?

[president]

The guys that wrote the us constitution believed that our "rights" were natural or God given.

They also believed in owning other people.

Did we not have rights like free speech or religion before the constitution was written? What happened during the time between when we defeated the British and the constitition was signed? Did residents of the states not have rights?

Some did, some didn't.

Ok then ...... what if someone like me or others do not want government services? Should the local government allow some people to opt out and not pay them?

Sure, you can sell your land and move. It would be wrong if they forced you to stay.

[Russell Kanning]

You can say no to a government? it?s called packing your bags and moving out of the country that that particular government over sees.

I find this particularly offensive. Are you saying I have to move out of this area if I disagree with what the majority votes on or what a bureaucrat decides?

The government does not oversee us. In fact this government is supposed to be controlled by the people. When it does not remain in its' place, our founding fathers considered it completely appropriate for common people to shrug off the evil yoke of tyranny.

I am not telling you what to do. I am trying to help you free yourself from this rotten government. If you want to stay under its' thumb, then so be it. But please do not force it on others including me. I will not oppose this government or its' defenders with force, but I will not cooperate with it.

[lildog]

The guys that wrote the us constitution believed that our "rights" were natural or God given.

Very true, but they also believed that they had to build them into the laws of the government so the government would be able to help protect those God given rights.

Just ask citizens living under dictatorships about the God given rights.  No one protects them, hence they don?t have them!

Ok then ...... what if someone like me or others do not want government services? Should the local government allow some people to opt out and not pay them?

Yes, now government services is something totally different then not wanting the government at all.

There are government services we must pay for as they are defined without our constitution? beyond that we shouldn?t be forced to subsidize any additional services we choose not to (unless they are defined within the state constitution of which you choose to live).

For instance, Merrimack has a transfer station.  Anyone using a local trash hauler isn?t using it as the hauler found it cheaper to use a commercial site outside of town to deposit the trash.  Yet those citizens paying haulers are still forced to pay for the station as the cost of running it is built into their taxes. They shouldn?t have to and that?s something I?m currently fighting my local government to change.  Pay as you throw would put the cost of using the facility on those who CHOOSE to use it.  Problem the town has (and they know this) is it?s so expensive to run, the cost to toss your own trash would be MORE then hiring someone to pick it up on the curb.

But those are the battles you need to fight, not tossing out the baby with the bathwater and refusing to support any part of the system.

I think we have a good country over all.  The constitution is a strong backbone for us and it?s something that should be supported.

[lildog]

You can say no to a government? it?s called packing your bags and moving out of the country that that particular government over sees.

I find this particularly offensive. Are you saying I have to move out of this area if I disagree with what the majority votes on or what a bureaucrat decides?

The government does not oversee us. In fact this government is supposed to be controlled by the people. When it does not remain in its' place, our founding fathers considered it completely appropriate for common people to shrug off the evil yoke of tyranny.

I am not telling you what to do. I am trying to help you free yourself from this rotten government. If you want to stay under its' thumb, then so be it. But please do not force it on others including me. I will not oppose this government or its' defenders with force, but I will not cooperate with it.

See I think your fighting the wrong battle.  We DO have representation as you can do what I?ve already done and that?s seek public office and work from the inside out to change things.

Tossing your hands up and saying I?m not going to support the government will only get you into legal problems and end up accomplishing nothing.

Do you think you?re the first person who choose to protest by not paying taxes?  You?re not.  Far from it? and has anything changed as a result of the previous attempts?

Look back at the founders of this country? they didn?t push for elimination of taxation, they didn?t push for elimination of government? they pushed for a representative government.  At least on a state and local level we have that.

[Russell Kanning]

I think they were wrong when they pushed to inflict a government on us.
People living under dictators are just living under an even worse government than us at present. That does not prove that governments protect rights.

I am leaving room for you to like governments, but you leave me no room to live without them. Why are you forcing your rules on me?

Even if I do not succeed in freeing myself completely from this government system does not mean that the course I am taking is wrong.

[lildog]

See my answer post in the thread about stop paying taxes.  (no reason for two threads with the same discussion)

[Lex]

If you don't have any ability to say "no" to a government, then you are left to beg to keep it in check.

You can say no to a government? it?s called packing your bags and moving out of the country that that particular government over sees.

You should have been around during the american revolution then we'd still have a Queen. I'm sure you would have sent the "Founding Fathers" packing their bags! Bastards, who do they think they are disputing the right of the British government to oversee the states.