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Just blowing off steam by drowning everybody else in it...

Started by eques, November 30, 2006, 08:40 AM NHFT

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eques

What was the gender-inclusive pronoun that some group of people wanted to use?  "Chon" or something?  It was some new, invented word that they wanted to use... I forget.  (I remember hearing about it, thinking, "how silly," and moving on to other, more pressing issues. ::))

I tend to use "one" because I guess I'm a bit of an anglophile (mostly because of the accent and not much else, I think).  I use it to replace "you" in my writing as I don't wish to direct certain things I say to a specific person, but I'm intending to speak generally.

Anyway, getting hot and bothered about the lack of a gender-inclusive pronoun in English is pretty silly.  There are a few alternatives, though they may sound awkward to American ears... does it really matter?  I don't see anybody getting upset over French and other latin languages having specific male/female gender assignments to all sorts of words!  (Then again again... I might not have a whole lot of exposure to such a thing... :P)

Michael Fisher

Good point. For example, there's no French word for a man's "wife" -- she's just his "woman".

Sweet Mercury

Quote from: Michael Fisher on December 03, 2006, 11:43 PM NHFT
On the topic of sexism, professors say it's distracting when you use "he" in scholarly research writing when referring to an example individual.

Then again, it's chauvanistically distracting to use "he", feministically distracting to use "she", old-queen's-English distracting to use "one", quasi-illiterate to use "they", annoying to use "someone" or "a person", REALLY annoying to use "he or she", and completely illiterate to use "s/he".

Conclusion:

I say guys should use "he" and girls should use "she". Then, whichever gender writes the most stuff and the best stuff, wins.

I usually, in the attempt to use english properly, go with "he," "he or she," or "one" depending on the situation and what sounds the most clear. I avoid "they" except in the most casual of conversations.

What's wrong with "s/he" though?

Braddogg

In Hebrew, the word for "husband" and the word for "master" is the same.

Spencer

Quote from: Braddogg on December 05, 2006, 08:32 PM NHFT
In Hebrew, the word for "husband" and the word for "master" is the same.

You're playing with fire.

eques

Quote from: Michael Fisher on December 05, 2006, 12:53 AM NHFT
Good point. For example, there's no French word for a man's "wife" -- she's just his "woman".

And likewise, a woman's husband is her "man," though that doesn't sound nearly as "offensive," does it?

Michael Fisher

Quote from: eques on December 05, 2006, 11:06 PM NHFT
Quote from: Michael Fisher on December 05, 2006, 12:53 AM NHFT
Good point. For example, there's no French word for a man's "wife" -- she's just his "woman".

And likewise, a woman's husband is her "man," though that doesn't sound nearly as "offensive," does it?

Nope, there's actually a word in French ("mari") that means "husband". We aren't their "men", but they're our "women". ;)

Michael Fisher

Quote from: Sweet Mercury on December 05, 2006, 05:10 PM NHFT
What's wrong with "s/he" though?

It's sloppy, illiterate, distracting, annoying, grammatically incorrect, and worst of all, it's politically correct. :o

Should I go on?  ???

Michael Fisher

Quote from: Braddogg on December 05, 2006, 08:32 PM NHFT
In Hebrew, the word for "husband" and the word for "master" is the same.

8)

*gets mobbed and beaten by angry women*

Sorry. ;)

KBCraig

Quote from: eques on December 04, 2006, 02:10 PM NHFT
What was the gender-inclusive pronoun that some group of people wanted to use?

The only one I'm familiar with enjoys a limited and highly controversial usage on USENET and certain listservs: "sie" and "hir", for s/he and him/her. It's mostly used where people seek the maximum anonymity for themselves and the third parties of whom they are speaking.

And it's irritating as hell. English does have a default neutral pronoun: "he".

Kevin

Sweet Mercury

Quote from: Michael Fisher on December 06, 2006, 12:59 AM NHFT
It's sloppy, illiterate, distracting, annoying, grammatically incorrect, and worst of all, it's politically correct. :o

Should I go on?  ???

One at a time:

sloppy: a subjective aesthetic description.
illiterate: not so much as "they." It at least shows enough proficiancy within the language to recognize when to use a singular pronoun.
distracting: subjective.
anooying: subjective.
grammatically incorrect: it's a truncation of "he or she." Is "he or she" grammatically incorrect?
politically correct: I prefer the term "respectively gender non-specific."  ;)

But do go on.  ;D

Sweet Mercury

Quote from: KBCraig on December 06, 2006, 02:57 AM NHFT
Quote from: eques on December 04, 2006, 02:10 PM NHFT
What was the gender-inclusive pronoun that some group of people wanted to use?

The only one I'm familiar with enjoys a limited and highly controversial usage on USENET and certain listservs: "sie" and "hir", for s/he and him/her. It's mostly used where people seek the maximum anonymity for themselves and the third parties of whom they are speaking.

And it's irritating as hell. English does have a default neutral pronoun: "he".

Kevin

Timothy Leary had a habit of using "sie" and "hir" in much of his writing. I figured he just made them up, or something.

eques

It could have been "sie" and "hir," but I thought it was some other word formation.  However, I dunno.

KBCraig

Quote from: Sweet Mercury on December 06, 2006, 05:45 PM NHFT
Timothy Leary had a habit of using "sie" and "hir" in much of his writing. I figured he just made them up, or something.

Ah. I never read Leary, but the people I've seen using "sie" and "hir" probably did a lot of acid.  ;)


eques

Quote from: KBCraig on December 06, 2006, 07:14 PM NHFT
Quote from: Sweet Mercury on December 06, 2006, 05:45 PM NHFT
Timothy Leary had a habit of using "sie" and "hir" in much of his writing. I figured he just made them up, or something.

Ah. I never read Leary, but the people I've seen using "sie" and "hir" probably did a lot of acid.  ;)



Maybe that's why when I think of "sie" and "hir," I think of university professors, by and large... hmm....