single mom getting threats from the taxman

[Beth221]

I am posting this for sharon.  The feds are threatening her with taking away some state assistance for child day care, because she doesnt pay federal taxes. 
We are looking for idea's for her, to maybe scare the feds away!  SHE IS A PORCUPINE TOO!!  Living in RI, with us RI misfits!  THanks for any help! 


From Her, after i told her some super stars to email!::::

My name is Sharon Ankrom, but most folks call me Ivy.  You do not know me, but you might remember Beth Golomb or Dan Garthwaite from PorcFest.  They are my best friends and referred me to you for some advise.  I'm not quite sure what advise I might need at the moment, since this is all just starting within the past few hours, but they said I should email you with my story and go from there.

Little background information: I am a single mother of two small children (5yof, 2yom) from RI.  I do not have much income, so I am on my state's medical insurance for me and my son (my daughter is covered under her father's), collect some foodstamps for the three of us ($62.00/month), and am on the Child Care Assistance program my state offers. The CCA pays some or all of your day-care expenses depending on hours of employment and income level.  Right now, my children have complete coverage.  Each of these programs go through recertification every 6 months, where you need to verify your address, your employment, etc.  Also, I have owned and operated my own landscaping company since last October.  It was small time... I had one 'major' client and a few others I worked with from time to time.  But this past June I picked up some waitressing shifts at a restaurant, and the restaurant suddenly took over much of my time, which left me with no time for my own business and put my company out of business.  (Not a big deal - I was making good money in the restaurant anyways).

So in the last week of June I get a letter from the Dept of Human Services saying that my CCA will be ending June 30th because I "did not fill out my recertification form or provide the necessary information" - a form which I never received and information I was never told I needed to provide by a certain time.  I called up my case worker Barbara Silvia to inquire what was going on.

On a side note, Barbara has taken issue with me several times in the past regarding my self employment.  She, being a good little government employee, is all upset that I don't keep books for my cash business.  She gives me all kinds of grief about it each time I speak with her.

I get her on the phone and she says that she had sent me the form "a few" weeks prior (she couldn't tell me when) and that since she had not received it and my information yet, my assistance would be ending.  I asked if I could get a new copy of the form she (supposedly) sent me to fill out and return to her.  She starts asking me about my employment looking for my records of my landscaping business.  I again explain to her it's a cash business and I don't keep very good records and it would be hard to provide her with books, but her boss only required that I get him a letter from my client(s) last time (yes I had to get her boss involved in the prior recertification) and "that should do, right?".  She starts in with "Well, didn't you file your tax return for last year? You should have had to report that income on your tax return!  THAT should do, not some letter anyone can write!"  I say to her "Well, Barbara, actually you are not technically required to pay federal personal income tax."  I went on to explain to her briefly that in the federal tax code there is nothing that requires you to pay.  I have become enlightened to the truth about tax laws - truth which I did not even know and I DO TAXES FOR A LIVING in the tax season.  I had since become a member of the Libertarian party and of other organizations and fight against such frauds.  I then said, "However, Barbara, I will say that, even if I claimed that income, my income is so low and would still be so low that I would have still had a zero tax liability and would not have paid taxes.  I have had a zero tax liability for more than four years and AM NOT REQUIRED to pay federal income tax BY THE FEDS OWN STANDARDS."  After that, she abruptly tried to end our conversation, saying that she would be starting to review her cases in a few days and even if I mailed my form today in she would not get it by then and my assistance would be ending.  I then asked if I could come down to the office that afternoon and pick up the form and bring it to her the next day with all the information she required.  She said to me "Don't even bother!" and explained that nothing I could do would stop my assistance from ending.  I asked what I should do from here, and she says to me I should go and get a new application and send it in.  New applications are allowed 30 days from the date they receive it to be processed - which means I'd be out of childcare for 30 days and therefore out of work for 30 days... who can keep a job that way??!!!

So at first I think, this woman has all the cards, I'm screwed anyways, suck it up.  Fine.  I get a new application, fill it out and send it in that day.  A week and a few days go by, and I call to check on it and she claims she has never received my application.  I fill out another one... same scenario.  By now it is mid-June.  The kids have been out of daycare for two weeks, and I have been out of work for one of those two (the first week I could afford a sitter...).  After the application mysteriously getting lost in the mail twice, I figured I'll just bring it down to the office so it can't possibly get lost.  Now it's June 19th and I bring down the form to the office.  I tell the girl at the desk that the application has somehow gotten lost in the mail twice (yeah right) and I was bringing it down so it wont get lost again.  She smiles and says, "You know what?  Have a seat and I'll have another worker take that right from you so it doesn't get "lost" again.  (I think they know what is going on...)  So I go in and talk to this other guy Mike and he puts my application in the computer system.  He says it will take a few days but it should be no problem, call next week. 

Next week rolls around and I call up and she has done nothing with the case at all.  I had to get her boss involved again to finally process and get my case approved after another week.

Now I have no job because I was unable to show up for 3 weeks...

This morning a Federal Investigator rings my doorbell.  She says my case is under review and she verbally verifies all this information I just gave to the workers, says she is going to investigate my entire case and get back to me.  I ask what triggered this and she starts going into well sometimes they are random, sometimes a case worker sees something... I stopped her and asked, yes but why mine and she looks at her paperwork and is finally truthful and says "Because you told your worker you do not file income tax."

Nice.

So that's my story so far.  I'm not sure what is going to happen with this 'investigation, but I'll keep you all posted.  Feel free to forward this on to anyone and if you or anyone has any thoughts or advise, feel free to contact me via email.

Sincerely,

Ivy.

[sandm000]

The feds are threatening her with taking away some state assistance for child day care, because she doesnt pay federal taxes. 

so I am on my state's medical insurance for me and my son (my daughter is covered under her father's), collect some foodstamps for the three of us ($62.00/month), and am on the Child Care Assistance program my state offers. The CCA pays some or all of your day-care expenses depending on hours of employment and income level.  Right now, my children have complete coverage

fight against such frauds.

Firstly, Why isn't the children's father(s) paying for any of the day care expenses, insurance or food?  My daughter's mother is getting almost 20% of my income from me.  I think you need to take him to court, and there are lawyers who accept payment plans and have (relatively) low hourly rates.   If you can't afford any el-cheapo lawyer, try the state bar association for a referral,  they might know someone willing to do some pro Bono work.  I think it's a much better thing than to force everyone to pay for his responsibilities.

Possibly you could get him to sign a contract (assuming you haven't got one yet) that you got notarized, thereby avoiding an initial case in the courts (wasting more public money), and only requiring you to take him to court if he doesn't pay.  Which lawyers might do on a contingency basis, whereby if you don't win, you don't owe them money.

PS I can't stand the fact that someone would come to libertarians and anarchist/agorists to lament the loss of 'public assistance' AND ask for suggestions on how to get it reinstated.  How helpful was it if you became dependant on it to live? I'm really mad, but I'm not cursing because I don't want to be seen as being completely heartless.

[Beth221]

one dad takes the child for the weekend, and she pays support, and the other father is in jail, and she wishes not to have any sort of discussion with this abusive man, who refused to believe she was pregnant with his baby, and she refuses to go threw a court system to get him to pay, its not worth a womans life, for a few bucks a month over a blood test. .

She is stuck in the system, of handouts, which are easy to get in this state.  Look at me, I was granted unemployment for one year! 

But, dont miss the point of this, SHE HAS THE FEDS investigating her because she told them she does not pay federal taxes, now they threaten her with taking away state funding..  this has nothing really to do with her using my state tax money. 

We are trying to get the feds off her ass.  I have no problem with her getting my tax money.  State tax money.  She is not trying to get reinstated, and i am pissed at your last comment. 
Again, its not about her kids dads, its about taxes. 

Oh and edit, by the way, I POSTED THIS because i figured you would understand why I went to a bunch of libertarians..  ok sandm00??? 
She is finding herself, working on moving away from state assistance, she is an RP supporter, she is a free stater, and she is moving to NH. 
If you cant stand the fact that I posted this here, then dont read it!  Beth

[sandm000]

Look at me, I was granted unemployment for one year! 

Are you proud of that?  I know they didn't come to your door offering you money.  You went and filled out the papers to get the "assistance"

But, dont miss the point of this, ...she told them she does not pay federal taxes, now they threaten her with taking away state funding.. 

So when she taunted them, they took her seriously! She wouldn't be in any predicament if she hadn't tried to get state funds in the first place.   

this has nothing really to do with her using my state tax money. 

What about everybody else in the state who has paid taxes?

We are trying to get the feds off her ass.  I have no problem with her getting my tax money.  State tax money.  She is not trying to get reinstated,

Then why the long rambling page and a half letter about how she lost all of her daycare coverage? She didn't say that she wasn't trying to get her day care 'privileges' back.  She was asking for any "advise" on the subject. You even said that this was about Child Care Assistance.

The feds are threatening her with taking away some state assistance for child day care, because she doesnt pay federal taxes.

and i am pissed at your last comment. 
Again, its not about her kids dads, its about taxes. 

It most certainly isn't about taxes, it's about RESPONSIBILITIES.  I didn't have sex with her, ergo that child is not MY responsibility.  My advice is to stop seeking to use force against innocent people to have your bastard children on state assistance.  (My daughter is also a bastard, so I'm using this term in it's literal sense, not in anyway as a pejorative)  If her baby daddies refuse to pay, that's one thing.  But if, as you say, she refuses to ask them for money, why would the next step be going to the state for help?  If she can't ask the father because she thinks he will kill her, how could they have had sex in the first place?  Or better yet, why would she have brought that child into this world?   What about her family then, or friends, like you?  If you support her campaign, why don't you send her some money as well as sending out this letter for her?

Oh and edit, by the way, I POSTED THIS because i figured you would understand why I went to a bunch of libertarians..  ok sandm00??? 

I didn't understand before, possibly because I read the letter the way it was written, not with the knowledge you have imparted to me in your response.  I now understand you want to get the Feds off of her case entirely.  Then you might have come to the right place.  Ed and Elaine Brown have been avoiding going to jail since they were convicted.  Maybe she could run away, go underground, stay off the radar, take only cash jobs, and find a free stater who is sympathetic to her needs.  I don't know how much babysitting costs in RI, but I bet you could find someone here who would do it cheaper.     

she is an RP supporter

That doesn't make her my Best Friend.

If you cant stand the fact that I posted this here, then dont read it!  Beth

How can I ascertain whether or not I would object to the contents of your post without reading it?  I didn't report you to the moderators, I didn't ask to have your post removed, I thought I should voice my opinions on that letter.  If my response left you feeling that I was opposed to your freedom to post here, I am sorry that it was taken in that way.  I was merely stating how ironic it was for a purported libertarian to be asking for help on gaining state aid.

[Beth221]

*eyes rolling..  Unemployment is something that I have paid into, so i am rightfully getting MY money back, and I AM PROUD OF THAT!  hahaa! 

She was not taunting them at all. 

*ok, enough, i am not going to reply to you assuming that she is a bad person, by accepting state help.  that is besides the point.  She is now stuck in the system of government handouts, but that is another issue.  She is not lazy, she will work, and is working to get off assistance. 

When you are a woman, with 2 little kids, and have no where to turn to, except the state, to feed your kids, OR live with an abusive man, what would you choose?

I am asking on behalf of her, things to do to help with the feds. 

I suggested moving into the browns!  HAH!

Quit getting your panties in a twist. the reality of it, is some people, need assistance, and she is an example of being stuck in the system. 

[sandm000]

Can you admit that the letter as you originally posted it sounds more like a plea for help getting your friend back on the dole than a request on anti-fed tactics?

[Beth221]

what i wrote, was i needed ideas for getting the feds off her tail.  what she wrote was, the whole story.  I have posted this in OTHER places, and i have not been asked to admit that we are looking for handouts for her.  Every other place where i have posted this, gave us ideas for how to handle the feds, from one free stater to another. 

[Dave Ridley]

good to see you back here beth!

[sandm000]

The feds are threatening her with taking away some state assistance for child day care, because she doesnt pay federal taxes.

Maybe you should edit your original post then?

Or admit that there might have been some confusion about the goal of your original post?

[Beth221]

HI DADA!!!!  I have missed you!  L:loved the porch 411 call about the open carry!!


I am sort of back, I am just here for advice. 

The feds are trying to bully Sharon, by threatening to basically ruin her life, by taking away some assistance.


*If they do this, this is what is going to happen to her, She will stop her hunt for a job in this Rhodie Island Jobless market, she will have to watch her kids daily, as she has no babysitter, nor the money to pay for one.  She will stop going to RI College, because lack of child day care, she will have lack of funds to buy gas, to get her baby diapers, milk, food, and medicine, as he gets ear infections all the time. 

Do i want this to happen to her?  Hell No.  She is stuck in a whirlwind of being a dependant on the state.  She is fully aware that she decided to not pay federal taxes.  I BET they are even going to threaten to take her kids away, as they are bullies. 

She is looking to get off assistance, but she is caught, I figured that I would start asking for support as we dint know what to do, and I am sure once they see that she is a free stater, that Dan, frank, Brian, and myself, the whole RI FSP crew will be looked at..  We are gearing up to start killing laptops if we have to!! 

The feds, I think are going to make a example of her.  Luckily she is a real strong gal who knows her rights!! 

Sand, I will not edit my post, it is true, she needs the assistance, unless she wins powerball!  Her kids going to day care, makes it possible for her to work, do you know how expensive childcare is in RI? 

She is not sitting on a bench downtown, selling drugs, wearing a fur coat and diamonds, and selling her food stamps for cash.  She is a hard working mom, well, a unemployed mom, trying to get ahead. 

Sand, what do you suggest she do, instead of ridiculing her for being on assistance, for the wellbeing of her children?   

[Dan]

She made the choice to reject the state's assistance when she stopped reporting, and she's just a little emotional today when they finally came a'knocking and pulled the assistance. 

(note: "reporting" not giving, since the balance of her "return" would have been "negative".  Man words are so twisted when the government get's ahold of them).

It underscores one of Mary Ruwart's central themes that Government handouts knocks out the button rungs on the ladder of affluence.  ( see the older free version of Ruwart's work at ruwart.com, but the post 9/11 version is worth buying )

To paraphrase:  She's had it, and now sees herself a little stuck without it.  She'll adapt and overcome.  In fact maybe now she'll start climbing that ladder.  It was one of the things holding her back in RI.

  . o O ( another former tax specialist moving to NH! )

...and guys, she's single.

[Dreepa]

...and guys, she's single.

and fertile...

[sandm000]

Get the fathers of her children to pay.  No matter how distasteful she may find it.  It is the one option that she has, and you have stated that she will not talk to them.  If they wanted her to have those children, then it is their responsibility to help raise those children.  And I have some idea of how expensive childcare can be. We (my wife and I) used to live just outside of New York City, and it would have been financially ruinous for both of us to stay working and try to raise a child, the daycare costs would have eaten up one of our salaries.  So as soon as our son was born (actually two months after he was born) we moved to NH.  We moved without jobs and made out OK.  

Perhaps you RI porcs could pitch in for a couple tanks of gas (~$50) and send her and her kids up here in their car, with what food, diapers, and only those other things that they need.  Once here there are a couple of places she could stay. http://www.asafeplacenh.org/weHelp.html is in portsmouth and run by the united way.  http://www.divorcesource.com/shelters/newhampshire.shtml this is a list of shelters around the state. After that she could start looking for day labor positions, or she could advertise on craig's list the jobs she is suited to do (possibly day care, seeing as she already has two children, she could possibly take in a couple, but that is in the long term)  Until such time as she has enough money for a place of her own.

As for advice on what to do for the feds: Run if you don't want to deal with them.

If you don't detest them and want to work with them, fill out the 1040s for all of the years that she didn't have them, make sure that her cash only business looks like a losing prospect on paper.  Don't lie to them, because when she gets taken to court and sentenced to jail time for tax evasion she will most certainly be seperated from her children.  

Hopefully someone else will have some ideas on what to do or where to go.

[J’raxis 270145]

Note that it's the feds trying to take away her state assistance, by the way. Even if you don't agree that she should be on it, or that it should even exist, the feds should have no right to interfere in state-level social assistance programs.

sandm000:—

I and others have often argued that these government-assistance programs are a way of making people dependent on the government, preventing them from seeking alternatives, such as relying on friends or family, or finding charities providing similar services. I think what's happened to this woman is a perfect example of that. She's stuck on it now, and she's trying to get off of it, but simply can't afford to yet, and you're being an ass for preaching ideology to her about something she can't yet help (without resorting to dealing with her abusive husband, or fleeing the custody situation and opening herself up to child-kidnapping charges or somesuch).

Do you go around berating recovering alcoholics when they fall off the wagon, instead of trying to help them? (Or at least letting them alone?)

It's stuff like this that makes people think all libertarians are a bunch of heartless, selfish assholes.

[sandm000]

J'raxis 270145

She said to me "Don't even bother!" and explained that nothing I could do would stop my assistance from ending.

The she in this case being Barbara the STATE case worker.

The FEDS only said they got the info fromt her case worker.

And as for kidnapping, if she can't talk to them about caring for their kids, or if they don't want anything to do with the children, I don't think she'll have all that much trouble with them down the line.

Besides she should only have to give 30 days notice of her moving to the fathers.

And I'm also being preachy because if you read the headline, then the first line of the post it sounds like "Someone got taken off of Welfare by FEDS, give me some advice to get her back on it."  I've read the original post three times, and those particular lines every time I repost something to this thread, and the meaning of those lines hasn't changed.  If you want me to not sound preachy, don't ask how we can get you onto welfare, foodstamps, wic...

I admitted half a dozen posts ago that I was mistaken:

Oh and edit, by the way, I POSTED THIS because i figured you would understand why I went to a bunch of libertarians..  ok sandm00??? 

I didn't understand before, possibly because I read the letter the way it was written, not with the knowledge you have imparted to me in your response.  I now understand you want to get the Feds off of her case entirely.  Then you might have come to the right place.  Ed and Elaine Brown have been avoiding going to jail since they were convicted.  Maybe she could run away, go underground, stay off the radar, take only cash jobs, and find a free stater who is sympathetic to her needs.  I don't know how much babysitting costs in RI, but I bet you could find someone here who would do it cheaper.     

But I won't back down from the position that the original post sounds like a plea for help in resubscribing to public assistance.