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Author Topic: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted  (Read 7491 times)

Rocketman

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Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« on: May 23, 2005, 01:08 AM NHFT »

Hey folks,

Inspired by all this manicure action, I just watched Gandhi with two friends (one of which is Sidney, whom those of you who have met me have also met).  We are pretty inspired at the moment, and are discussing the feasibility of publicly giving a six-pack of our homebrewed beer to an underage Iraq War veteran.  I think if we set it up properly, using a well-written letter to the authorities (ABC?) and a Dada-esque press release, this could be very well received by the public around here, where people are very openly supportive of the troops.  This could really awaken some of the latent anti-government sentiment that lurks among these hills.

We'd really like to hear what you NH folks think.  Thanks in advance.

Matt
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John

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2005, 01:19 AM NHFT »

I'm all for it!   :)
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AlanM

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2005, 01:23 AM NHFT »

Go for it!
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Dreepa

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2005, 01:48 AM NHFT »

Great idea...
You would just have to find a willing underage vet....
Great photo of the cops arresting the vet in fatigues with a beer in his/her hand.
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Rocketman

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2005, 02:08 AM NHFT »

There are, unfortunately, lots of underage vets in this part of the country.? Some don't have many other options than to join the military, so young people are leaving in droves, and some are coming back.? I don't expect the vet would be arrested, just the person offering him alcohol.? I also just got the idea that it should be done July 2 or 3, ostensibly so the vet will be able to properly celebrate his country's independence.? The person (Sidney) could thank the vet for serving his country and present him with the beer.? He could further state his intention to continue giving homebrews to underage vets -- after what they've been through, they deserve the freedom they're supposed to have been fighting for.

I don't think the vet would be arrested.? I expect the beer would be confiscated and Sidney would go to jail.? I'll look up the penalties tomorrow, I guess.? Gee, they're probably pretty harsh... but imagine the absurdity of jailtime for such an act!

Once the event succeeds, it can then be used to promote the Free State Project.
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Dreepa

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2005, 02:14 AM NHFT »

Also check the laws between giving free beer and selling it to him.

It is illegal to drink under age so the cop would only be enforcing 50% of the illegal transaction if they didn't arrest the vet.
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Rocketman

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2005, 02:46 AM NHFT »

My recollection from being under 21 is that cops crack down hard on people who provide alcohol to minors, but not so much on the minors themselves unless they get drunk and run amok.  I knew lots of minors who had their booze confiscated, and a few who were arrested for underage consumption, but I've never heard of an arrest for mere "underage possession" of alcohol.  He wouldn't be drinking the beer until July 4 anyway, and if the cops take it he'd never get the chance...

I hope cops like homebrew.   ;D

But if they did arrest the vet for accepting a six-pack of beer, I presume that would be front page news nationwide.  Wow, I think they'd have better sense than to let that happen.
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John

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2005, 03:22 AM NHFT »

While listening to some music the other day I was struck by the words

" . . . I can join the Army, get killed in a fight, but I can't even get a legal drink tonight . . ."

These "kids" are fighting for what? - Freedom?

I hope the "kid" likes homebrew!  Best of luck.

Thank you for welcoming the "kids" home.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2005, 06:56 AM NHFT »

Actually someone already had about the same idea.....it is a great idea. If you guys could reread all of the civil disobedience literature....it might help in the actual execution of the plan....but I don't see how you can wrong....as long as you do it nonviolently and are willing to serve some jail time for a silly "offense". :)

The more things like this we do the better. I bet you will get a lot of support around there. We have thought of many ways to go against the various drinking laws here also. :)
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Kat Kanning

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2005, 06:57 AM NHFT »

I'm very happy to see the civil disobedience idea spreading.
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Lloyd Danforth

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2005, 07:55 AM NHFT »


These "kids" are fighting for what? - Freedom?


Er.....Oil.....Nationbuilding.... diversion from real domestic problems....Bush's ego....some freedom for some Iraqui's, maybe....but, not our  freedom.
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Michael Fisher

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2005, 10:05 AM NHFT »

BRILLIANT!!!  :)

"They can fight and die for our country, but not drink?"  Nothing proves this point better than civil disobedience!  :)

Remember, the worse they crack down on you, the more effective the event will be.  Just make sure everything is done in full view of the public!  Send the press releases out and the letters to the government at the same time.  Do a lot of research into Gandhi's principles, which are truly the key to a successful event.

I will do everything I can to help this event succeed!  You will be heros nationwide!
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Michael Fisher

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2005, 10:56 AM NHFT »

It looks like this is a Class B or Class A misdemeanor.? Check it out for yourself:
http://lrc.ky.gov/KRS/244-00/CHAPTER.HTM
http://lrc.ky.gov/KRS/244-00/990.PDF

Here's an initial partial rough draft of a Dada-style PR:

Activist to Sell Alcohol to Iraq War Veterans Under 21

?, Kentucky, May 23, 2005 - Inspired by the movie Gandhi and New Hampshire's "outlaw manicurist," a Kentucky man plans to defy Kentucky's underage drinking laws.? Matt ? of ? has announced that he will sell alcohol to veterans of the Iraq War who are under the age of 21 - the legal drinking age in Kentucky.

"In a free country," he says, "responsible adults are allowed to drink without the government's permission."

"At the age of 18, these men and women can fight and die for our freedom, but they are not allowed to drink until 21," he said.

Selling alcohol to minors is a misdemeanor under KRS Chapter 244.08.

Earlier this month another Gandhi admirer, Mike Fisher of Newmarket, New Hampshire, used the Mahatma's techniques to protest business licensing.? After announcing he would perform an unlicensed manicure in front of the state licensing offices, he followed through with his promise, earned a brief trip to jail, and received heavy regional media coverage for his point of view.

The plan is for Matt to sell alcohol to a veteran of the Iraq War on Monday, June 20, at noon, in front of the Alcoholic Beverage Control (ABC) in Frankfort.

Summary:

What:? Civil disobedience against underage drinking laws.
Where:? Alcoholic Beverage Control, 1003 Twilight Trail, Frankfort, KY? 40601
When:? Monday, June 20 at noon
Who:? Matt ? of ?, KY, supporters from the Free State Project
Why:? To bring attention to the fact that certain adults are not allowed to drink alcohol.
How:? By selling alcohol to a veteran of the Iraq War, and continuing to do so until forced to stop.
Contacts:
« Last Edit: May 23, 2005, 11:25 AM NHFT by LeRuineur6 »
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Rocketman

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2005, 11:36 AM NHFT »

Mike,

We really appreciate your support.? I've been trying to make sense of these statutes all morning.?

A few corrections:

I don't think there's any reason to sell the beer.? That would turn it into a licensing protest, since it's illegal for us to sell our beer to anyone regardless of age, and that would confuse the issue, which is the age of consent.? Sidney (whom you also met) will be the one giving beer to the vet.? He will make a short statement thanking the vet for his service and present him with the six-pack as a gift.? I will be the friendly neighborhood college professor who helps him refine his approach and sticks up for him in the media.

Also, I'm thinking the event should take place Saturday, July 2, ostensibly so the vet will be able to properly celebrate America's Independence on the 4th.

I think adults who give beer to minors are usually charged with "contributing to the delinquency of a minor," so I'm thinking the local cops might be the ones doing the arresting, not ABC.? This is pretty complicated, so I'll ask a lawyer for some clarification.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2005, 11:59 AM NHFT »

a lawyer will tell you not to do it. :)
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