Keene Activist May Be Jailed Tomorrow Morning 8/15 Over a U-Turn!

[FTL_Ian]

Activist David Manning will be showing up at Keene District Court tomorrow morning in regards to an unpaid U-turn ticket.  We will be meeting David at Brewbakers on Main Street at 8 a.m. prior to his trip over to the courthouse to discuss strategy.

[mvpel]

Aren't rules of the road a bit further down on the list than rent-seeking licensing systems and the like?  What's the background of this situation?

[FTL_Ian]

I'm a little bit light on information... all I know is that David made a U-turn, was ticketed, did not pay, and will not pay.  Tomorrow is his last day to either pay or appear in court.

[d_goddard]

A lot of my support depends on the situation.

Did he intentionally do a U-turn at a place where it was clearly posted that he couldn't, and he just thinks The Man is out to get him?
Did he do a U-turn but have no realistic way of knowing such a maneuver was against the law?
Did he do a U-turn, knowing it was illegal, but under extenuating circumstances (like, rushing to the hospital or a wedding or somesuch)?

[money dollars]

Did he send the ticket in with the "not guilty" box checked?

It is only an unpaid ticket if he didn't send it, or he sent it with a different box checked.

Anyway, each day he spends in jail counts as $50 toward the fine....

IUT
  $   77.00
 
Two days in jail should cover it.

[Kat Kanning]

wish I could be there!  I can protest outside the jail, if that is needed.

[lildog]

A lot of my support depends on the situation.

Did he intentionally do a U-turn at a place where it was clearly posted that he couldn't, and he just thinks The Man is out to get him?
Did he do a U-turn but have no realistic way of knowing such a maneuver was against the law?
Did he do a U-turn, knowing it was illegal, but under extenuating circumstances (like, rushing to the hospital or a wedding or somesuch)?

Good questions D, in addition to that I'd be more interested in knowing where this turn was made.  In some areas making a U turn can put not only yourself in danger but others because of limited site on the road.  This isn't something I think we should be encouraging unless we know far more details.

[KBCraig]

It matters to most of us here whether it was a U-turn on a deserted street at 2 a.m., or whether it was during noon rush and caused others to slam on their brakes.

Unfortunately, it probably doesn't matter to the judge.

[Caleb]

I added it to the calendar for you, Ian.

Let me just say this:  For those of you whose head is still in the sand, we have a defacto national id card. That card is your driver's license. The "Real ID" is just another step in integrating the information, but even as is, the license is still a de facto national id card.

Now ... as the US government made pretty clear to the Central American regimes in the torture manuals, a national id card is pretty much worthless if you don't have a system of internal checkpoints.

No internal checkpoints in America, right?

Think again!  Why the hell do you think we have so many policeman who are engaged in enforcing trivial traffic regulations?

Does Dave have a victim? No. Then why are so many of you pontificating about how you can't give your support in such and such a situation?

[KBCraig]

Does Dave have a victim?

We don't know that. That's why we're pontificating.

[dalebert]

Anyway, each day he spends in jail counts as $50 toward the fine....

IUT
  $   77.00
 
Two days in jail should cover it.

You mean you can cause them expense instead of the other way around?

Schweet...

[Caleb]

I wasn't getting on your case, kb. Your post seemed to add a little common sense.

In this case, there was no victim (well, unless you count Dave as the victim of the officer.)

[d_goddard]

Does Dave have a victim?

That depends on whether he was driving dangerously.
I don't buy that you have to actually kill somebody to create a victim. Shooting a single round into a crowd and failing to hit anybody simply results in a lot of people who were victimized a lot less than if there had been one well-defined corpse.

Even if all roads were privately owned & operated, there would surely be rules of the road. And some people would surely break them.

What I mostly want to know, is whether "doing an illegal U-Turn" was merely a pretext for an expropriation, as so often happens, or in fact the enforcement of reasonable rules.

[Caleb]

Does Dave have a victim?

That depends on whether he was driving dangerously.
I don't buy that you have to actually kill somebody to create a victim. Shooting a single round into a crowd and failing to hit anybody simply results in a lot of people who were victimized a lot less than if there had been one well-defined corpse.

Even if all roads were privately owned & operated, there would surely be rules of the road. And some people would surely break them.

What I mostly want to know, is whether "doing an illegal U-Turn" was merely a pretext for an expropriation, as so often happens, or in fact the enforcement of reasonable rules.

No offense, denis, but you're speaking out of your ass.

"Was he driving dangerously?"

By what standard? (See, I've been reading Ayn Rand ) That, as I'm sure you know, is a subjective standard. Are you advocating for subjective standards in general?

You seem to be implying that I can create a victim if someone merely feels fearful or astonished at something I do. By that standard, you can make almost anything illegal.

[FTL_Ian]

99% of no u-turn signs are totally arbitrary and bullshit.  Market roads would respond to demand.  Uturns may be mostly allowed and yields may replace most stop signs.