Plenty of Apples, but Possibly a Shortage of Immigrant Pickers

[Lex]

Nationwide, growers' associations estimate that about 70 percent of farmworkers are illegal immigrants, many of them using fake Social Security numbers on their applications. Under the new rules, if the Social Security Administration finds that an applicant's information does not match its database, employers could be required to fire the worker or risk being fined up to $10,000 for knowingly hiring an illegal immigrant.

"Farmers are required to validate the legal status of their workers, which they do," said Peter Gregg, a spokesman for the New York Apple Association, a nonprofit group representing more than 670 commercial apple growers in the state. "But a lot of times the paperwork is false, so they're unwittingly or unknowingly hiring workers who are here illegally. And then a raid will occur, and all of a sudden their workers will leave."

For apple growers in New York, where the forces of nature and the market have at last come together in their favor, the potential fallout from the new immigration initiative is particularly unsettling. "We have three billion apples to pick this fall and every single one of them has to be picked by hand," Mr. Gregg said. "It's a very labor-intensive industry, and there is no local labor supply that we can draw from, as much as we try. No one locally really wants to pick apples for six weeks in the fall."

Full Article: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/nyregion/21apples.html?ref=us

[kola]

put the welfare people to work.

kola

[J’raxis 270145]

Or pay high enough wages that Americans will take apple-picking work...

[Lex]

Or pay high enough wages that Americans will take apple-picking work...

Then nobody will be able to afford apples.

[kola]

Welfare people need to work and earn their money.

They have plenty of free time.

Kola

[J’raxis 270145]

Or pay high enough wages that Americans will take apple-picking work...

Then nobody will be able to afford apples.

Well, in a free market, how else do you propose enticing people to do unpleasant work?

[J’raxis 270145]

Welfare people need to work and earn their money.

They have plenty of free time.

Kola

Welfare people shouldn't be on welfare.

Although this seems like something that should be targeted toward people on unemployment, since unemployment is only supposed to go to people who are out of a job—and are actively seeking a new job but unable to find one. Here are plenty of jobs for them to find.

[mvpel]

It's illegal to pay people less than a certain amount per hour, regardless of whether the job to be done is worth half or less than that.

Illegal immigrants, illegal subminimum wages = exploitation, fostered by irrational employment laws.

[mulp]

Do you really believe in the free market?  Really?

If so, what do you think Jeff Crist should do now that he is faced by the anti-free market politics of immigration to the US?

HAMPTONBURGH, N.Y., Aug. 16 — With a look of supreme satisfaction, Jeff Crist squinted at the Ginger Golds and Jonamacs ripening under an incandescent sun at his apple orchard here: the trees were so laden that they almost seemed to strain under the effort.

This is the third year in a row of near-perfect weather, and Mr. Crist, a fourth-generation apple grower, like many other growers in the Hudson Valley, is finally feeling secure after a disastrous string of harvests marred by early frost and hail. In fact, Mr. Crist is so bullish that he recently bought a 164-acre orchard nearby, bucking the decades-long trend of apple orchards being sold to housing developers.

But while weather conditions have cooperated and industry experts say demand for apples nationwide has approached an all-time high, there are new fears in New York and around the nation over whether there will be enough hands to pick the crop. This month, the Bush administration announced new measures to crack down on employers of illegal immigrants.

Nationwide, growers' associations estimate that about 70 percent of farmworkers are illegal immigrants, many of them using fake Social Security numbers on their applications. Under the new rules, if the Social Security Administration finds that an applicant's information does not match its database, employers could be required to fire the worker or risk being fined up to $10,000 for knowingly hiring an illegal immigrant.

"Farmers are required to validate the legal status of their workers, which they do," said Peter Gregg, a spokesman for the New York Apple Association, a nonprofit group representing more than 670 commercial apple growers in the state. "But a lot of times the paperwork is false, so they're unwittingly or unknowingly hiring workers who are here illegally. And then a raid will occur, and all of a sudden their workers will leave."

For apple growers in New York, where the forces of nature and the market have at last come together in their favor, the potential fallout from the new immigration initiative is particularly unsettling. "We have three billion apples to pick this fall and every single one of them has to be picked by hand," Mr. Gregg said. "It's a very labor-intensive industry, and there is no local labor supply that we can draw from, as much as we try. No one locally really wants to pick apples for six weeks in the fall."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/nyregion/21apples.html

Apples are a unique American invention, originally useful only for producing a sweet liquid that naturally fermented and then became vinegar.  Perhaps one out of a million seeds produce a tree that produces an apple that one might enjoy eating.  Only by grafting shoots from the few good trees to new trees was it possible to create an agricultural product and market.

Thus, it isn't possible to quickly develop apple trees that can produce tasteless apples that meet the requirements of machine harvesters.

In the early 20th century there were many varieties, but by the 80s the selection had been winnowed down by the "free market" to about a half dozen as the commodification of food proceeded apace.  Then the genetic decline of those varieties started to become apparent, not to mention the adaptation of pests to this monoculture.  Thus market forces drove the apple industry toward its demise because the product they delivered to customers wasn't very desirable.

So, in recent years, the apple growers are finally reaping the rewards of diversifying and returning to the earlier era of offering a wide variety of apples.  And this is what the people want.

But the people who want the variety don't want to pay the price that native apple crops demand.

The people reject a free market in labor.
The people reject the concept of the market setting a fair price.

If greed is good, why does it create a situation that so many object to: the demand for willing labor willing to work for the price that can be afforded by the price the people who call for restricting the supply of willing labor.

So, are you for the free movement of labor to support a free market?

[error]

I don't care who picks the apples, and it's none of the government's damn business, either.

[Lex]

I'm glad to hear there is a good apple crop this year. Last year's quality, availability, and prices left much to be desired.

By the sounds of it this years prices may leave even more to be desired 

[Lex]

Do you really believe in the free market?  Really?

Sure.

If so, what do you think Jeff Crist should do now that he is faced by the anti-free market politics of immigration to the US?

What is the "anti-free market politics of immigration to the US". I can't read your mind so I don't want to assume what you think is pro-market or anti-market when it comes to immigration.

Apples are a unique American invention

So, in recent years, the apple growers are finally reaping the rewards of diversifying and returning to the earlier era of offering a wide variety of apples.  And this is what the people want.

But the people who want the variety don't want to pay the price that native apple crops demand.

The people reject a free market in labor.
The people reject the concept of the market setting a fair price.

If greed is good, why does it create a situation that so many object to: the demand for willing labor willing to work for the price that can be afforded by the price the people who call for restricting the supply of willing labor.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here.

So, are you for the free movement of labor to support a free market?

I'm for free movement of everything: people, labor, products, ideas, money, etc.

[JonM]

I'm happy to pick my own apples.

How much more would an apple cost if the person picking it were paid $20 an hour instead of $10 (do they even get $10)?  Maybe even $30 an hour.  How many apples does one person pick an hour?  With the extra $20 an hour they are paid, it amounts to pennies an apple (perhaps 10 to 20 pennies an apple depending on productivity).  I'd pay it, I like apples.

[Little Owl]

Apples are a unique American invention

Apples have been grown and cultivated for centuries.  With "facts" like that, who needs bullshit?

[kola]

hasn't anyone invented a automatic apple tree picker..

some cool gizmo that will wrap around the tree, shake it like mad and let the apples fall into large canopys which funnel into baskets.

yes?

Kola