Immigration Crackdown=Farmers move south

[Tom Sawyer]

American Farmers Cross the Border for Labor
CELAYA, Mexico — Steve Scaroni, a farmer from California, looked across a luxuriant field of lettuce here in central Mexico and liked what he saw: full-strength crews of Mexican farm workers with no immigration problems.

[Russell Kanning]

It is amazing ... government gets so much in the way that even the farmers are going down south .... are the mexicans worried about being taken over by the gringo farmers

... they are taking our yobes man

[Russell Kanning]

it must be much bigger than that ... there are millions of them in california ..... and hardly any corn farms

[Rochelle]

Funny you mention that, since a large part of the reason they (mexican laborers) come here is that our subsidies for corn farmers have all but run mexican corn farming out of business.

replace corn farmers with "higher wages in the US" and delete everything after that phrase and you have a more accurate view of things

[Rochelle]

Well if your argument is that the only reason they come is for higher wages, and that we havent exacerbated that condition by obliterating some of their labor markets through state action, then that would provide even less reason for me to support their presence here.

No, but it's definitely one of the reasons they come here: they can get higher wages in the US for doing the same work as in Mexico. I can't presume to speak for ALL Mexican immigrants, but I sincerely doubt they left Mexico for the exciting and different scenery in the US. They have a surplus of unskilled labor in Mexico, we have a shortage of it, so some of the surplus in Mexico comes here.

The only thing our strict immigration laws are doing is creating a black market in immigration.

[J’raxis 270145]

Well if your argument is that the only reason they come is for higher wages, and that we havent exacerbated that condition by obliterating some of their labor markets through state action, then that would provide even less reason for me to support their presence here.

No, but it's definitely one of the reasons they come here: they can get higher wages in the US for doing the same work as in Mexico. I can't presume to speak for ALL Mexican immigrants, but I sincerely doubt they left Mexico for the exciting and different scenery in the US. They have a surplus of unskilled labor in Mexico, we have a shortage of it, so some of the surplus in Mexico comes here.

The only thing our strict immigration laws are doing is creating a black market in immigration.

I assume that this is a hotbutton issue for you after seeing your avatar and tagline, so im probably wasting my time here, but...

How are US immigration laws 'strict' when we already have the most generous immigration program of any nation in the world?

These two things are not mutually exclusive. "Generous" sounds like you mean we allow more immigrants into the U.S. than any other nation—probably true. But that doesn't preclude us from having extremely strict immigration laws. Even with extremely strict laws, the total number of immigrants successfully navigating their way through the system could still be higher than anywhere else.

This reminds me of how some people can rightly claim the U.S. is the "most generous" donor of foreign aid in the world because we're the biggest, and at the same time other people can rightly claim we are the "stingiest." Looking at the data from two different angles allows you to arrive at both conclusions.

[Rochelle]

How are US immigration laws 'strict' when we already have the most generous immigration program of any nation in the world?

Hmm let's see...maybe it's the fact that I've been trying for over a year to get my husband here and have yet to do it? And now they've lost my Immigrant visa fee bill, but are refusing to actually tell me that straight out, instead just telling me that I have to keep waiting and each time I call I have to wait longer. Maybe that might be it? Trust me, if you were trying to immigrate legally to the US, you would quickly find yourself trying to do so illegally. It's a lot less painful.

Additionally, you might not be aware of this fact, but it is impossible to immigrate to the US unless you have at least 12 years of education. This would not apply to most of the unskilled workers attempting to immigrate here, not just from Mexico, but from a lot of third world countries. Unless, of course they go for the refugee visa (aka Pity Visa).

Here, you can read about my own visa journey here: http://www.stabu.net/ruminations/?cat=7

[coffeeseven]

Trust me, if you were trying to immigrate legally to the US, you would quickly find yourself trying to do so illegally. It's a lot less painful.

That's really it in a nutshell. Our government makes everything prohibitively difficult and then punish those who "go around". Quite a racket.

[Rochelle]

Here's a really good article on immigration:

Immigrants, Our Country Needs Them

[Fragilityh14]

while legal immigrants are good for the economy and the current system is incomprehensible and unfair, with the modern day welfare state illegal immigration is the same thing as a subsidized right to trespass, and damages the liberty of the people who live within the state, because their tax dollars shouldn't be paying for that. But eliminate the welfare state and they could do whatever they wanted at the borders and I wouldn't care