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Author Topic: Silver tippers' toolbox (and for other "real" money advocates)  (Read 945 times)

penguins4me

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Silver tippers' toolbox (and for other "real" money advocates)
« on: September 18, 2007, 01:44 PM NHFT »

Even with silver at over $12/oz, I'm interested in using silver rounds to attempt to help educate or introduce folks to real money, money with inherant value. I've got a collection of rounds and what-not, but if a tip consisted of one or two FRNs and a silver round, that's not enough to pique interest, in my opinion.

In another thread, it was mentioned that a note or a card left with a bit of information about the funny coin would be immensely helpful towards this end. Since I'd seen no thoughts or ideas on the wording of such a note, and it's about time for me to be able to try the idea out, here's what I've come up with:

Calculate the spot price of the silver into the tip, but leave at least one extra FRN in addition to the silver round and a note (which would likely be more interesting if printed on a business-type card) akin to the following:

Quote
A United States Federal Reserve Note (FRN), such as a $1 or $20 bill, costs the government about five cents to produce. In other words, when those with the power to print money feel that they want more paper money, they merely print it at the cost of five cents per bill.

Unlike a FRN, this piece of silver has no face value. Unlike a FRN, this piece of silver has a certain inherant value because silver has many uses other than looking pretty or being a decent paperweight.

Silver has antibiotic properties which can be used, for example, to fashion containers to keep water, vinegar, wine, milk, etc. fresher by hindering the growth of bacteria. Silver is also very useful in electrical and electronic applications, as it is an excellent conductor of electricity. Many niche applications use silver, such as the development or production of some photographic films, in the production of high-quality mirrors, in chemistry as a catalyst in some oxidation reactions, among many other uses.

This piece of silver contains one troy ounce of .999% pure silver. Its value in FRNs varies dramatically. In 2002, one ounce of silver sold for less than $4.50. By the beginning of 2006, silver's price had doubled to $9. Its price will continue to vary, mostly in part to the fact that the fiat currency, the US FRN, varies widely in value - look it up for yourself, if you like; the symbol used on stock-quote sites is "DX".

Recently, the value of this one-ounce silver piece in FRNs was: __________________________


Here is some more information on "real" money:
"Bring back honest money", by TX Rep. Ron Paul
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr072503.htm


The goal of the note is to introduce the funny coin (and in the case of Liberty Dollars, to explicitly state that the dollar value listed is a suggested trade value, not a legal tender value) and to briefly explain the merits of silver (and by extension, other value-backed money) in contrast to the fiat FRNs that most everyone considers to be "real money".

My note definitely lacks some easily understood, concise external sources on the merits of valuble money and the pitfalls of fiat currency. What other improvements could be made? Suggestions anyone?
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Lasse

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Re: Silver tippers' toolbox (and for other "real" money advocates)
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2007, 02:30 PM NHFT »

Can someone please tell me why Liberty Dollars claim a face value instead of simply saying the weight (as in their calculable real value) on the face? Is it to make them more easily understood or something? For me it's entirely confusing, how are you supposed to know what they're really worth in a practical way?
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penguins4me

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Re: Silver tippers' toolbox (and for other "real" money advocates)
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2007, 03:00 PM NHFT »

Can someone please tell me why Liberty Dollars claim a face value instead of simply saying the weight (as in their calculable real value) on the face? Is it to make them more easily understood or something? For me it's entirely confusing, how are you supposed to know what they're really worth in a practical way?

Folks were pointing that out in the "another thread" I'd linked to. I'd started another topic to get ideas on how to try to promote silver as a desirable ... currency, thing to have, expose the evils of our fiat FRNs, etc.
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error

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Re: Silver tippers' toolbox (and for other "real" money advocates)
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2007, 03:16 PM NHFT »

Can someone please tell me why Liberty Dollars claim a face value instead of simply saying the weight (as in their calculable real value) on the face? Is it to make them more easily understood or something? For me it's entirely confusing, how are you supposed to know what they're really worth in a practical way?

They're really worth an ounce of silver.

You're confused because you're thinking of Federal Reserve Notes as "money" and silver as some commodity that you would purchase with your FRN (funny) "money."

Consider instead that silver is "money" and FRNs are some commodity that you would purchase with your money, or sell in order to obtain money.

This may take some time to get your head around. I know it was a long time before I understood this. :)
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Lasse

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Re: Silver tippers' toolbox (and for other "real" money advocates)
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2007, 03:40 PM NHFT »

Can someone please tell me why Liberty Dollars claim a face value instead of simply saying the weight (as in their calculable real value) on the face? Is it to make them more easily understood or something? For me it's entirely confusing, how are you supposed to know what they're really worth in a practical way?

They're really worth an ounce of silver.

You're confused because you're thinking of Federal Reserve Notes as "money" and silver as some commodity that you would purchase with your FRN (funny) "money."

Consider instead that silver is "money" and FRNs are some commodity that you would purchase with your money, or sell in order to obtain money.

This may take some time to get your head around. I know it was a long time before I understood this. :)

I know that silver is worth is weight, plain and simple; but why can't it just say that on the coin rather than some FRN convert rate that is bound to change just about every day? Why not the weight, readily convertible to any fiat or non-fiat currency at any time?
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Ron Helwig

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Re: Silver tippers' toolbox (and for other "real" money advocates)
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2007, 03:50 PM NHFT »

Can someone please tell me why Liberty Dollars claim a face value instead of simply saying the weight (as in their calculable real value) on the face? Is it to make them more easily understood or something? For me it's entirely confusing, how are you supposed to know what they're really worth in a practical way?

They're really worth an ounce of silver.

You're confused because you're thinking of Federal Reserve Notes as "money" and silver as some commodity that you would purchase with your FRN (funny) "money."

Consider instead that silver is "money" and FRNs are some commodity that you would purchase with your money, or sell in order to obtain money.

This may take some time to get your head around. I know it was a long time before I understood this. :)

I know that silver is worth is weight, plain and simple; but why can't it just say that on the coin rather than some FRN convert rate that is bound to change just about every day? Why not the weight, readily convertible to any fiat or non-fiat currency at any time?

Think of the "face value" stamped on the Liberty Dollar as a Suggested Retail Price. Its there to make it usable in everyday trade with those who are unfamiliar with the value of silver. It also should help eliminate the need for haggling and checking spot prices and etc.

Those of us who know the value of silver can trade in it by weight, but "the masses" need some help.

IMHO, the face value is a necessary intermediate step required in the transition from FRNs to precious metal mass currency.
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Mike Barskey

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Re: Silver tippers' toolbox (and for other "real" money advocates)
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2007, 03:54 PM NHFT »

Think of the "face value" stamped on the Liberty Dollar as a Suggested Retail Price. Its there to make it usable in everyday trade with those who are unfamiliar with the value of silver. It also should help eliminate the need for haggling and checking spot prices and etc.

Those of us who know the value of silver can trade in it by weight, but "the masses" need some help.

IMHO, the face value is a necessary intermediate step required in the transition from FRNs to precious metal mass currency.

That helped me immensely! Thanks for that metaphor.
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Ron Helwig

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Re: Silver tippers' toolbox (and for other "real" money advocates)
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2007, 04:00 PM NHFT »

In another thread, it was mentioned that a note or a card left with a bit of information about the funny coin would be immensely helpful towards this end. Since I'd seen no thoughts or ideas on the wording of such a note, and it's about time for me to be able to try the idea out, here's what I've come up with:
...
Quote
A United States Federal Reserve Note (FRN), such as a $1 or $20 bill, costs the government about five cents to produce. In other words, when those with the power to print money feel that they want more paper money, they merely print it at the cost of five cents per bill.

Unlike a FRN, this piece of silver has no face value. Unlike a FRN, this piece of silver has a certain inherant value because silver has many uses other than looking pretty or being a decent paperweight.

Silver has antibiotic properties which can be used, for example, to fashion containers to keep water, vinegar, wine, milk, etc. fresher by hindering the growth of bacteria. Silver is also very useful in electrical and electronic applications, as it is an excellent conductor of electricity. Many niche applications use silver, such as the development or production of some photographic films, in the production of high-quality mirrors, in chemistry as a catalyst in some oxidation reactions, among many other uses.

This piece of silver contains one troy ounce of .999% pure silver. Its value in FRNs varies dramatically. In 2002, one ounce of silver sold for less than $4.50. By the beginning of 2006, silver's price had doubled to $9. Its price will continue to vary, mostly in part to the fact that the fiat currency, the US FRN, varies widely in value - look it up for yourself, if you like; the symbol used on stock-quote sites is "DX".

Recently, the value of this one-ounce silver piece in FRNs was: __________________________


Here is some more information on "real" money:
"Bring back honest money", by TX Rep. Ron Paul
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr072503.htm

My note definitely lacks some easily understood, concise external sources on the merits of valuble money and the pitfalls of fiat currency. What other improvements could be made? Suggestions anyone?

I'll have to think about it for a bit, but I really like the start you've gotten. I've been wanting to do something like this for a while, especially in concert with the new NHLibertyDollar.com site.
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mackler

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Re: Silver tippers' toolbox (and for other "real" money advocates)
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2007, 04:14 PM NHFT »

Can someone please tell me why Liberty Dollars claim a face value instead of simply saying the weight (as in their calculable real value) on the face? Is it to make them more easily understood or something? For me it's entirely confusing, how are you supposed to know what they're really worth in a practical way?

Why do Liberty "Dollars" claim an arbitrary face value?  For the same reason they use in their name the same word as what they're supposedly trying to differentiate themselves from: "dollar."  Because it's a flawed marketing model.

There are many companies that sell standard-sized hunks of silver.  The fact that Norfed imprints theirs with the word "dollar" and a number that represents neither the mass of metal nor the value in FRNs is just an unnecessary addition of irrelevant information, as your confusion demonstrates.

As far as leaving silver tips goes, that's one of my favorite ways to use silver.  But I don't leave any FRNs.  Why pollute an otherwise honorable gesture?  The only comment I add is the current spot price and the approximate value of the tip.  If I were leaving a note, I'd probably just leave an URL to a website where one can find the price of silver.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 04:23 PM NHFT by mackler »
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Jacobus

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Re: Silver tippers' toolbox (and for other "real" money advocates)
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2007, 04:55 PM NHFT »

Quote
A United States Federal Reserve Note (FRN), such as a $1 or $20 bill, costs the government about five cents to produce. In other words, when those with the power to print money feel that they want more paper money, they merely print it at the cost of five cents per bill.

Actually, it costs the government nothing to print money, counterintuitive though it may seem.  This is because they can pay for the "costs" with what they just printed.  Paul Hein has a good explanation of this:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/hein/hein94.html
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penguins4me

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Re: Silver tippers' toolbox (and for other "real" money advocates)
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2007, 09:05 PM NHFT »

Here's a _very_ temporary image I attempted to cobble together using the GIMP - boy does that thing ever have an atrocious, non-intuitive user interface. The image actually does print to fill an 8.5x11 sheet of paper nicely, but the scaling/shading of the text makes it too hard to read and looks sloppy. The font, if clearer, could be made smaller, too. But, it's all I can stand of the GIMP for today, so...:

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