Student Tasered in Front of John Kerry

[penguins4me]

They didn't walk up and taser him.  They repeatedly asked him to wrap it up, and when he refused his mic was cut, and he was told to leave, and he resisted, and then a minute or so later he was tasered.  It wasn't like the taser was how UF let him know his time was up.

You're expanding the timeline. The mic was cut, he says "thank you for cutting my mic, thank you are you arresting me are you arresting me whoa whoa". They didn't wait for him to leave after the mic was cut, they went hands-on immediately.

As for the taser being necessary, the guy was under a police dogpile at the time, with more cops standing right nearby. It was punishment, plain and simple.

So the dude's a camera junkie. Does not excuse the excessive force used, and I mean even the initial hands-on (assault).

[alohamonkey]

I just watched the liveleak version.  They had him face-down on the ground, handcuffs on one of his arms and almost on the other, 5 police on top of him, 2 other cops standing behind and ready to help, John Kerry in the background saying it was an "important question" and they still felt the need to taser the kid???  And some people here call this acceptable behavior?  That's f-ing disgusting. 

I understand that there are rules pertaining to certain public meetings but how do you get politicians to answer tough questions when those questions are constantly being censored and avoided?  I have never heard John Kerry or George Bush give responses to the massive amounts of voter fraud that occurred during the last election.  And the only time I've heard them discuss Skull and Bones is here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rcZig9Fkr1A

This kid presented his question to John Kerry in the only way that he could to get his voice heard and look what happened.  The police initiated force when it wasn't necessary (like usual) and shut him up.  He was rude and disrespectful and non-compliant but I'm sure many of us on this forum have been those things before . . . and it doesn't mean we should all have been tasered. 

[CNHT]

So being annoying in today's america means that the police tackle and taser you.  Lovely.

Apparently Kat, having an ugly lawn means that the police can throw you on the ground and handcuff you too:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/19/lawn.dispute.ap/index.html

Bloodied 70-year-old woman cuffed for having a brown lawn:
Great-grandmother charged with resisting arrest

HOLY SHEEEITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well guys, don't tell the cops but right now they are mowing rocks out there in front of my house.... and I cower in fear of my impending arrest!   

(Truth be told, someone was going to try to sue me for not installing bushes when I built the house...)

[mvpel]

Soooooo, I would assume your solution would be to bow down and be led around by the high and mighty enFORCEers?!

Don't ask, don't question . . . just obey.  That seems to be the norm for most of the populace nowadays 

I didn't say anything of the sort.

I simply made an observation, along the lines of "the sky is blue," and "the grass is green."

The observation was: "when cops go hands-on, they will always, ALWAYS bring the situation to a conclusion using whatever force is necessary to gain your compliance with their demands."

So the point is, you shouldn't act shocked when it happens, any more than you should be surprised when a rock rolls downhill.  If you go toe-to-toe with the cops, as this guy was trying to do, you will ALWAYS lose unless you're a cold-blooded killer.

You might win later in court, as Mr. Darrow did and will likely again, but right then and there on the scene, forget it.

[mvpel]

I didn't see any reason AT ALL for them to taser this kid. They would've done better, if he was resisting, to just pick him up under the arms and shuffle him to the lobby or whatever...there was jsut no reason to taser him. None.

So if they'd dislocated his shoulder as he was writhing and twisting and trying to escape their grip, undoubtedly other people would have indignantly demanded why the cops didn't use their Tasers to force his compliance.

[CNHT]

Was that Neal Conner carrying the Gadsen flag?

Glad it was Gadsden and not Che Guevara!

[kola]

People are dying from being tasered.

Almost all folks recover from a dislocated shoulder and avoid death.

Five cops on top of this kid and he has to be tasered???

C'mon...start thinking rationally.

Too many people/sheeple have become desensitized to violent acts...might us well start rigging up the gallows and sharpening the gillotine blades.

disgusted,
Kola

[mvpel]

Almost all folks recover from being Tasered and avoid death, too, Kola.  Tasers are not normally lethal, and the effects are normally gone the minute the current stops.  The same can't be said of the effects of a dislocated shoulder.  If you're high on cocaine or overdosing on some other drug, though, and you're already at the margins of your physical health, or already in the process of dying to begin with, then the risk of Tasers is at an entirely different level.

And aside from that, people have been dying in police custody ever since there was such a thing as police custody, long before the Taser was even a twinkle in anyone's eye.

In-custody deaths have been reported separately for several decades. Before Tasers, cops used Monadnock batons, manufactured right here in the Granite State, or their wooden cousins.  There's been deaths over the years from "positional" or "restraint asphyxia," for example.  They've also characterized what's called "excited delirium syndrome."

So to fixate on the Taser misses the larger issue of police use of force in general.

The principal focus here ought to be, as I see it, why the hell the police decided to go hands-on in the first place, as opposed to a focus on the tools and techniques they used to force compliance with their demands once they did, given that they were going to force compliance one way or another as surely as the sun rises in the East.

[mvpel]

What if Dave Ridley had been tasered when he returned to the IRS office to hold his sign?? What then?? We all would have gone apeshit and rightly so. I can hear it now "We asked you to leave here and now you've come back!" :zaaaaaaaaaap:

Yes, of course we all would have gone apeshit, but that's not what would have happened.

What you "can hear now" is not even remotely comparable to what happened at UF.  It's not necessary to twist the facts and sequence of events to make the cops look bad, they can do that all by themselves.

Try this more comparable scenario in the IRS office:

P1: "We asked you to leave here and now you've come back!  Please leave now."
D: "Screw you, pig, I've got my First Amendment rights!"
P1: "Sir, we are asking you to leave.  If you do not leave now you will be arrested for trespassing."
D: "Up yours, copper!"
P1: "We are ordering you to leave.  Are you refusing to leave?"
D: "Damn right, Porky!"
P1: (reaching towards D's arm) "You are under arrest for ..."
D: (yanking arm away and retreating) "Like hell I am!  DON'T TOUCH ME! LEAVE ME ALONE!"
P2: (grabbing D's arm and attempting to twist it behind his back) "Stop resisting, you're under arrest!"
D: (writhing to escape, screaming) "BITE ME you [bleep]ing pig!!!!"
P1, P2, P3, and P4: (tripping D, bringing him to the floor, pig pile forms) "Put your hands behind your back!  Put your hands behind your back! Put your hands behind your back!"
D: (writhing to escape, screaming) "WHAT DID I DO?? WHAT DID I DO?"
P1, P2, P3, and P4: "Put your hands behind your back or you will be Tased!  Put your hands behind your back or you will be Tased!"
D: (writhing to escape, screaming) "WHAT DID I DO?? WHAT DID I DO?"
:::::::zzzzzzzzzzzaaaaap!:::::::::::
P1, P2, P3, and P4: "Put your hands behind your back or you will be Tased again!  Put your hands behind your back or you will be Tased again!"

...etc...

A cop that goes straight to the Taser before verbal commands is not following the force continuum policy of their department, no matter what department that is, anywhere in the country, and will be subject to disciplinary action if the department itself isn't corrupt too, which of course is never a given.

I agree that the guy was on someone else's property at an event with a specific code of conduct expected of attendants. He broke this code by being obnoxious. It is a private club, he should have been asked to leave, my beef is not with his being asked to leave.

He wasn't Tasered because he didn't follow the venue's code of conduct, or even because he refused to leave, he was Tasered because he resisted the police after they had decided to go hands-on with him.  See above re: "blue sky," "green grass," "law of gravity."

[alohamonkey]

Some other people's opinions on the incident.  I picked out the pro-taser opinions (from www.cnn.com):

Jim Montgomery of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
That's what Tasers are for, to subdue a person without risking the officers or the person they are arresting. I don't understand what the fuss is about, from the tape the guy clearly was not doing what the officers told him to do. The officers should get an award for not losing their tempers. I think they handled it great.

Craig Haney of Chattanooga, Tennessee
Do what the police ask and you won't get tased. What a crybaby! If you act like a jerk in public you are going to get treated like one. He wanted to make a statement and he did.

John McCorcle of Midland, Texas
There's a fine line here that many people will not be able to see. This man was not tased because he overstayed his welcome at the podium or would not stop speaking. He was tased after repeatedly being asked to stop resisting and to leave peacefully. It was a last resort used by the officers and in my mind, absolutely justified.

Catherine Costello of Stamford, Connecticut
When an officer of the law tells you to stand down, hands on your head, or pull over, you do it. If you don't, you are in contempt and should be punished. The officers were correct in using a Taser on the student to defuse the situation.

They could have used a much more severe type of control but didn't. We need to let the police do their jobs and people need to understand that there will be a consequence for their actions, like being tased for not listening to the police. Good for the police, they should be commended for their actions.

Bill Clark of Decatur, Illinois
To me it's really very simple. When a police officer tells you to do something -- you do it. To do otherwise is just asking the officer to show you that they aren't kidding. This jerk was lucky he was only tased.

Lee Macklin of Redondo Beach, California
He should have just complied and left. Once he was on the ground, he should have just complied with the authorities and rolled onto his stomach. I think he was trying to make his removal an incident. I say Taser him again for the heck of it.




Man . . . we're turning into a pretty demented (and violent) nation.  Yes . . . if you don't obey like a little soldier, you deserve to be punished.  This guy is lucky that all they did was tase him. 
  This type of blather makes me sick.

[Russell Kanning]

that is why we live under tyranny ... these folks are ok with it

[CNHT]

Yeah it's pretty sad. I even think Kerry was a bit horrified at the overreaction of these cops and tried to sound a bit apologetic in his statement. (But I still think he should have said, WHOA guys, give the kid a chance to hear my answer...).

On FOX last night, they had one person pro the other con and the con said the same thing...this was an overreaction to someone who was NOT armed and had really not talked that long.

I think the 'skull and bones' thing might have made the cops think the kid went over the edge, but other people know what that is about so it's not a weird question, even Kerry said so.

[Kat Kanning]

http://theandrewmeyer.com/

Maybe we can do something to help him, rather than debating.

[mvpel]

That's the thing about involving the cops in any situation - they're going to get their way one way or another, and ratchet their way up the Use of Force Continuum, because that's just what they do.

I'm not quite sure why posting this simple reality would be worthy of a smite, but so it goes.

"Non-lethal" force is still force.

That's why they call them "law enFORCEment officers."

[penguins4me]

[snip]

"Non-lethal" force is still force.

That's why they call them "law enFORCEment officers."

What happened to "peace officers"?