An Open Letter re: Jim C. Perry

[David]

You can sue someone till you are blue in the face, but if he doesn't have the money, it really doesn't matter.  Legal violence isn't going to solve the problem.  Frauds should be shunned.  Sunshine is the best disinfectant. 

On a personal note, I really like J.P., and am very saddened that this has happened.   

[ny2nh]

Hey, he owes alot of people quite a bit of money...is that the problem?

There is a distinct difference between just "owing a lot of people money" and having actually stolen the money from them. Everyone falls on hard times - and sometimes people aren't able to pay debts when they said they would. That, I believe, people can accept. Blatantly defrauding people who consider you a friend and are often already tolerating more than necessary trying to help you is just unacceptable.

For the record, I was the printer of the raffle tickets. I gave Jim the invoice and he told me on numerous occassions that he had given it to the treasurer and she would write em a check at the next meeting. Meetings would come, meetings would go - and never a check. When I finally contacted Sandy directly, she got me the check pronto. Jim had never given her the invoice. We're talking months of waiting here.

What irks me is, I'm a small business and I am often scrambling to collect my A/R in order to pay what I need to operate. Each week, I put paying Jim ahead of paying myself. All those months that I was believing his lies about the check, I was making sure that HE got paid though! Looking back at my "Jim experience", I think Jim figured the purpose of my business was to provide him with a paycheck. I trusted him - even though so many people warned me about his flakiness - figuring he just needed an opportunity to get ahead. I won't go into details here, but based on my experience, I am sure that all of what Sandy said is true and that many others have be duped by Jim and, like myself, opted to write it off as a life lesson and a bad decisions, and kept it quiet to not cause Jim any embarrassment.

Sandy - good for you for stepping up and doing what more of us probably should have been more diligent about.

[Friday]

The raffle was likely against the law to begin with folks.  A lawsuit would be a joke and hurt all parties more.

That's not what the City of Concord told us when they took our money and issued us a raffle permit.

[CNHT]

Hey, he owes alot of people quite a bit of money...is that the problem?

Yes

[dalebert]

From the RSAs:

637:4 Theft by Deception. –
    I. A person commits theft if he obtains or exercises control over property of another by deception and with a purpose to deprive him thereof.
II. For the purposes of this section, deception occurs when a person purposely:
    (e) Misrepresents to or misleads any person, in any manner, so as to make that person believe that the person on whose behalf a solicitation or sales promotion is being conducted is a charitable trust or that the proceeds of such solicitation or sales promotion shall be used for charitable purposes, if such is not the fact.

It's a felony if the value involved is over $500.

Couldn't this be used as leverage? Send him an official letter explaining that you will press charges (not sue) because if he doesn't pay this money back, he's commited a felony.

[Rocketman]

From the RSAs:

637:4 Theft by Deception. –
    I. A person commits theft if he obtains or exercises control over property of another by deception and with a purpose to deprive him thereof.
II. For the purposes of this section, deception occurs when a person purposely:
    (e) Misrepresents to or misleads any person, in any manner, so as to make that person believe that the person on whose behalf a solicitation or sales promotion is being conducted is a charitable trust or that the proceeds of such solicitation or sales promotion shall be used for charitable purposes, if such is not the fact.

It's a felony if the value involved is over $500.

Couldn't this be used as leverage? Send him an official letter explaining that you will press charges (not sue) because if he doesn't pay this money back, he's commited a felony.

To prove "deception," you'd probably have to prove that he intentionally defrauded the LPNH.  Knowing JP, I don't think he meant to keep the money.  It just happened that way... 

[Lloyd Danforth]

If there was money available to have avoided getting in this position, he would have supplied it.  At his age, 23, I believe, had I been in this position, I would have pleaded to wealthier (smarter, more responsible) family members.  I'm guessing he is tapped out there, too.
If all of you had the history some of us have had with Jim, you would just say "Drop it!" and go with the shunning. 

[mvpel]

This situation reminds me of our former adoption agency - the coordinator in Russia was either too proud or too embarrassed to admit that the wheels were falling off and smoke was pouring out, and just kept telling us and the US coordinator what he thought we wanted to hear.  Yes, sure, no problem, next week, Monday, after the holidays, blah blah blah.

[srqrebel]

Wow, I would sure hate to be in Jim's shoes right now.

He conducted himself irresponsibly, and got exactly what he deserved.  He has been exposed and now faces shunning by the very folks who supported him the most.  This is true justice, and a far better deterrent of irresponsible behavior than anything the State can dish out.  Who wouldn't think twice about conducting themselves irresponsibly toward members of this group, after observing what has happened to this individual?

Imagine a world where consumer protection companies provide honor ratings on individuals, similar to the more narrowly tailored credit ratings provided by credit bureaus, and businesses/individuals provide highly effective enforcement of responsible conduct through relentless ostracization of irresponsible individuals.  In other words, imagine what we are witnessing here, only on a universal scale.  No initiation of force, just withholding of values.  This is the sheer beauty of the free market justice system.

Sandy, you certainly did the right thing by exposing this individual at the right time.  In doing so, you provided a shining example of how well the free market works when the State is not involved.

[mvpel]

Imagine a world where consumer protection companies provide honor ratings on individuals, similar to the more narrowly tailored credit ratings provided by credit bureaus, and businesses/individuals provide highly effective enforcement of responsible conduct through relentless ostracization of irresponsible individuals.  In other words, imagine what we are witnessing here, only on a universal scale.  No initiation of force, just withholding of values.  This is the sheer beauty of the free market justice system.

Sounds like a great idea for a website, if you could figure out how to prevent abuse by petty and vindictive people, of which there are no shortage in the world unfortunately.

[srqrebel]

Imagine a world where consumer protection companies provide honor ratings on individuals, similar to the more narrowly tailored credit ratings provided by credit bureaus, and businesses/individuals provide highly effective enforcement of responsible conduct through relentless ostracization of irresponsible individuals.  In other words, imagine what we are witnessing here, only on a universal scale.  No initiation of force, just withholding of values.  This is the sheer beauty of the free market justice system.

Sounds like a great idea for a website, if you could figure out how to prevent abuse by petty and vindictive people, of which there are no shortage in the world unfortunately.

You are right, there is no shortage of petty and vindictive people in the current ineffective State-based system.  In a free market system there is a powerful incentive to be honorable -- especially when you know that conducting an unfounded attack will quickly backfire and permanently damage your reputation and ability to conduct business.

How does Ebay do it?  Such individuals are swiftly exposed, because that is exactly what such a system is designed to do.

On this forum, petty and vindictive people are quickly exposed as trolls.  Have you ever noticed how the trolls' attempts at destroying the karma ratings of well liked forum participants tends to backfire?

Seems to work pretty well for the credit bureaus, too.  They have a procedure for identifying and removing erroneous information.

Applying that objection to the present case, who would even desire to smear Sandy for exposing JP for who he is? JP himself?  How far would he get?  Speaking for myself, I have no personal experience with either Sandy or JP, but judging by the huge weight of evidence from others supporting Sandy's characterization of JP, and lack of counter-evidence, there is no question in my mind who I would trust.  Even if someone tried to conduct a smear campaign on Sandy.

I happen to have a lot of faith in the goodness of mankind, while recognizing the the corrupting influences of the State.  Let me just say this, if petty and vindictive individuals outnumbered honorable ones, human civilization could not thrive under any system.

[J’raxis 270145]

There have been three or four different threads about creating a social networking site for freestaters. If any of these sites ever come to fruition, I would definitely like to see a reputation system implemented in it.

Looks like he took off from the forum here on 2007-09-07. If y'all want to shun him on the forum, single click:
http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?action=ignore;u=102

Up to fourteen now...

[Rifkinn]

I happen to have a lot of faith in the goodness of mankind, while recognizing the the corrupting influences of the State.  Let me just say this, if petty and vindictive individuals outnumbered honorable ones, human civilization could not thrive under any system.

That reminds me of something Robert Heinlein wrote back in 1952 for a radio audience. Here is part of it.  "I believe in my fellow citizens. Our headlines are splashed with crime, yet for every criminal there are 10,000 honest decent kindly men. If it were not so, no child would live to grow up, business could not go on from day to day. Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries --but it is a force stronger than crime."
It is a bit dated now, but I still enjoy it.  http://www.heinleinsociety.org/rah/thisibelieve.html

[Russell Kanning]

Looks like he took off from the forum here on 2007-09-07. If y'all want to shun him on the forum, single click:
http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?action=ignore;u=102

Up to fourteen now...

I'm an old school jp ignorer

[Pat K]

Looks like he took off from the forum here on 2007-09-07. If y'all want to shun him on the forum, single click:
http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?action=ignore;u=102

Up to fourteen now...

I'm an old school jp ignorer

How old school are you ?
Did you not accept his letters in the mail?
Did you refuse delivery buy the Pony Express?
Did you not take those scroll notes he tried to slip to you?
Or did you refuse the effort of lifting one of those heavy
chipped out stone tablets?