Ed and Elaine Brown arrested!

[lildog]

but what's the truth here?

They were charged with conspiracy to commit fraud and a series of other charges all stemming from their failure to pay income tax.

If they're in prison for religious reasons, then I can't stand behind them.

I don't get this statement, can you please expand on it?  Are you saying you support people fighting the government for tax reasons but don't support religious freedoms?

[EJinCT]

If they're in prison for religious reasons, then I can't stand behind them.

I don't get this statement, can you please expand on it?  Are you saying you support people fighting the government for tax reasons but don't support religious freedoms?

+1

Same exact question came to my mind.

it is law that we pay taxes.

So does that mean that all laws are just?




P.S. Don't believe something just because it is written somewhere.

[Sheep Fuzzy Wool]

Vargos:  No matter why someone stands up and says NO to the irrational, if they recognize (by saying so) that no one is born a slave and no one is born a master, they deserve support. 

Let's take Ed Brown for example.  No violent crime involved on his part.  Now:

Tasering him, then keeping him hypothermic for 6 days, gassing him with solvent fumes, then stripping him and sticking him in a cement cell with a hole in the floor for a toilet and glass walls for 'observation,' for 15 hours!  means

HE IS BEING TORTURED.

Is it OK to torture him?  IS IT EVER OK TO TORTURE?   

NO!

Torture, it is. I agree.

When a human does not have fresh (outside) air to breathe available to him or her, this is also torture.
Maybe this is why so many people are afraid to stand up to oppression. They do not want to be jailed as  said above, yet they will wait for for the day, those nice fenced in outdoor corrals designed for the masses are being used...http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm 
Fresh air.

Disclaimer:  I have not yet seen any of the above linked FEMA camps to know if they actual exist or not.

[Sheep Fuzzy Wool]

Vargos:  No matter why someone stands up and says NO to the irrational, if they recognize (by saying so) that no one is born a slave and no one is born a master, they deserve support. 

Let's take Ed Brown for example.  No violent crime involved on his part.  Now:

Tasering him, then keeping him hypothermic for 6 days, gassing him with solvent fumes, then stripping him and sticking him in a cement cell with a hole in the floor for a toilet and glass walls for 'observation,' for 15 hours!  means

HE IS BEING TORTURED.

Is it OK to torture him?  IS IT EVER OK TO TORTURE?   

NO!

Because someone named Shaun claims that the only ten minute call to anyone by Ed Brown is also taped on MP3 .   Anyone in their right mind believing this?

That does appear a bit odd.

[KBCraig]

There are some huge leaps of logic here, based on fear and speculation (and fueled by Ed's propensity to dramatize).

[KBCraig]

There are some huge leaps of logic here, based on fear and speculation (and fueled by Ed's propensity to dramatize).

Do you believe that what Ed related was in whole or part untrue?

Do you have reason to believe that "Tasering him, then keeping him hypothermic for 6 days, gassing him with solvent fumes, then stripping him and sticking him in a cement cell with a hole in the floor for a toilet and glass walls for 'observation,' for 15 hours!" actually happened?

Your skepticism and mistrust of the government is well founded. But remember, just because government lies, doesn't make Ed's word the gospel truth. Remember, this is the man who wasn't leaving his house except in a body bag, who had hundreds of supporters waiting to take out the family lines of every fed who'd crossed him, etc., etc., the list goes on. He kicked out supporters (one of whom is sitting in jail right now for helping Ed), then welcomed into his house the agents who arrested him.

Ed has said a lot of things in the past that weren't true.

I don't believe Ed should be in prison. That doesn't mean he's being gassed with benzene and toulene (WTF? Where did that come from?)

[KBCraig]

Yes, I have seen enough preliminary treatment of tax activists to know this fits right in.  Ed also had them embarrassingly stumped for a long time, as well as mentioning he might return defensive force for initiated force, so he was in for 'special treatment.'

Here's a factual point for you: the people at the jail and prison mostly don't know, and don't care, why someone is there, and they're unconcerned with the politics involved. Singling out someone for "special treatment" requires a lot more effort than they care to expend.

And I sure do understand what it's like to trust people who turn out to be psychopaths, official & unofficial.  In this case, though, the conversation indicated it was Shaun who vouched for these people, mistakenly and to his regret; Ed & Elaine were the primary victims of the ruse, not the ones who made that judgment call. 

Shaun didn't open the door. There were only two people in the house, and they alone are responsible for opening the door, no matter who vouched for them.

Toluene is an industrial solvent, like benzene.  Both are highly carcinogenic.  Ed may have recognized the odors; they're pretty distinctive.

Or he could have just been blabbering on.

Do you feel sympathy for their situation, at all?

I've said I don't believe they should be in prison. I feel sympathy for that situation. I don't feel sympathy for Ed's aggrandizement, trying to portray himself as an even bigger victim.

[ThePug]

how do you know what they are thinking? 

I doubt there's anyone on this forum who knows more about the inner workings of the Federal prison system.

[KBCraig]

Here's a factual point for you: the people at the jail and prison mostly don't know, and don't care, why someone is there, and they're unconcerned with the politics involved. Singling out someone for "special treatment" requires a lot more effort than they care to expend.

Is that really a factual assertion?  Kevin, I'm not trying to be confrontational with you.

I appreciate that. I'm not trying to be confrontational either, and I don't really like being dismissive of Ed. Ed has a long history as a big talker, whose deeds seldom match his words. I don't know Ed personally, but I've read some of his writings, and people who have known Ed for 20+ years have said right here on the forum that he's "all hat, no cattle", to borrow a Texas phrase.

As for my assertion on "special treatment" being factual, yes, it is. Sixteen years in the federal prison system has shown me that most staff aren't interested in even getting out of their offices, much less singling someone out for whatever he did on the outside. If someone assaults a staff member, then it's a different game, but if they had a beef with the marshals or the judge or some cop on the street, well, that's their beef, not ours. Prison staff are unarmed and outnumbered by over 100:1 in a low security prison like Elkton. Engaging in cruelty in that sort of setting would not be a good way to live a long and healthy life.

I've also seen that many friends and family members are (understandably) scared, so they're prepared to believe the worst. Some inmates play on that fear for a variety of reasons -- to get more money sent, to get drugs smuggled in, to get more visits, and sometimes just to puff up their own importance. If they're being singled out and tortured and subjected to all sorts of unusual treatment, then they must be some baaaaad dude, right?

Do I know that Ed is being less than truthful? Of course not. I do know that he has a reputation for exaggeration, and from what I've read, it's well deserved.

Ed is at FCI Elkton, which is a low security institution. It's clean and new (only 10 years old). It is not "Oz".

[ThePug]

how do you know what they are thinking? 

I doubt there's anyone on this forum who knows more about the inner workings of the Federal prison system.

. . . than. . . ?

KBCraig. He's spent the better part of two decades working at FCI Texarkana.

[Pat K]

Yeah next to Bufford T Justice, he
is my favorite law type person . 

[KBCraig]

Yeah next to Bufford T Justice, he
is my favorite law type person . 

More like Roscoe P. Coltrane. 

[error]

Someday the mountain might get'em, but the law never will.

[firecracker joe]

Yes that prison sounds very nice I'm sure ed loves it there..
We should all have to do a couple years ,
or atleast go in the service.
it is a good growing period i found

[Russell Kanning]

If they're in prison for religious reasons, then I can't stand behind them.

Why on earth should they be in prison for religious reasons.