Something is going on at Error's apartment!

[Bald Eagle]

Maybe you ought to rethink Gen. Stark's statement.

"Fear can hold you prisoner. Hope can set you free."
You ought to get busy living or get busy dying.                    -Shawshank Redemption


Live free or die.

[Lloyd Danforth]

If we can just figure out how those socks teleport
out of the dryer................

And.....how they chose which one of the pair goes.

[Checkpoint]

For those interested, background information regarding the U.S. Marshal Service can be found on wikipedia at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marshals_Service

Earlier in this thread, someone asked if there was actually a federal law making it a crime to lie to a federal officer. The applicable statute appears to be 18 USC 1001 which reads in pertinent part:

18 USC 1001. Statements or entries generally

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry; shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both....

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001001----000-.html

I believe this is what Martha Steward was ultimately charged with, and spend 5 months in jail for, several years back while under investigation by the SEC for insider trading. You'll note, she wasn't convicted of insider trading, what she was actually being investigated for, but rather making false statements to a federal investigator.

Given that enforcement agents will seek to use anything you say against you, this is compelling reason to refuse to answer their questions absent a court order or other special arrangements to do so. Even the most innocent statement can be misconstrued as an attempt to mislead or conceal by an overzealous enforcer. As such, I'd prefer to not have a jury making a determination on whether or not I'll be spending the next 0-8 years behind bars because something I said on the spur of the moment, under threat by inhospitable agents, turned out to not be completely accurate under the microscopic lens that agents of the federal government can bring to bear against targets of interest.

If a target of interest doesn't say anything, there's obviously no statement that can be misconstrued as a lie. This in turn forces agents to decide just how much time and effort they want to spend to legally compel a target to make a statement. Procuring a court order takes time and the agent in turn is required to make truthful statements to a judge justifying the order. This application for a judicial order becomes part of discovery during any legal proceedings that may arise after the fact and anything an agent says to justify an order can of course be used against him.

Agents obviously aren't interested in following the formal process for compelling statements from targets of interest if they can get away with it because of the extra effort required and the potential liability they face if they make false statements to secure the warrant/order. This is why the preferred modus operandi is to show up without warrants or court orders and attempt to 'convince' a target of interest to talk voluntarily. After all, talking to a federal investigator absent a court order to do so represents a voluntary waiver of one's rights.

Additionally, as this article shows:

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/06/appeals_court_r.html

Enforcers aren't bound by the same legal limitations that mere individuals are. Courts generally consider it perfectly acceptable for an enforcement agent to lie to suspects to coerce them into incriminating themselves and/or implicating others. This is why some of the Marshals who showed up the other day had no problem with falsely insinuating that folks who refused to voluntarily cooperate with them, would either be arrested on the spot or further detained. In at least one case, they lied about the right to record them as well.

Other points to consider. The U.S. Marshals indicated they've been concerned about potential violence related to the Brown case for over a year. As such, they've had twelve months to take action on any credible evidence of an impending illegal act. The fact that they showed up in the local community without warrants or court orders indicates they had no compelling evidence related to anyone they interrogated or were seeking information on. This conclusion is further bolstered by the fact that they failed to meet with Rob after he returned to the community and made himself available to the Marshals.

As such, this was clearly a fishing expedition designed to rattle some cages and place the community on notice that it's being watched....

One thing the community may want to consider is finding an attorney or two who can be reached during times of crisis like this. Perhaps there are a few liberty minded attorney's in the area who would be willing to be on call/retainer for future incidents. Folks could carry their cards around with them and tell enforcers who want to talk with them to talk to their attorney instead.

One of the cards I keep in my wallet is from Marc Victor who represented me after I was stopped at a joint task force roadblock (Feds and local police) in Southern Arizona and arrested for refusing to show ID on demand. See:

http://checkpointusa.org/roadblock/roadblock.html

The back of his card reads:

"I refuse to consent to any search whatsoever. As such, I do not consent to a search of my premises, my person, my immediate location or any vehicle or effects. I hereby exercise my rights as enumerated by the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Ninth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution and Article Two of the Arizona Constitution. I demand to have an attorney present prior to and throughout any questioning at all.  Additionally, I wish to consult with my attorney prior to any discussion with law enforcement officers on the subject of waiver."

Anyway, I want to thank you all for showing the rest of us what a liberty-minded community can look like and how it responds to encroachments on the liberty interests of any of its individual members.

[LordBaltimore]

If we can just figure out how those socks teleport
out of the dryer................

And.....how they chose which one of the pair goes.

Everybody knows they play Sock, Paper, Scissors...

[SethCohn]

One thing the community may want to consider is finding an attorney or two who can be reached during times of crisis like this. Perhaps there are a few liberty minded attorney's in the area who would be willing to be on call/retainer for future incidents. Folks could carry their cards around with them and tell enforcers who want to talk with them to talk to their attorney instead.

[/quote]

Evan Nappen.  FSPer, highly skilled lawyer, one of the best 2nd amendment and defense lawyers around.
http://evannappen.com though it's out of date (He's living in NH now, though he does a lot of NJ work still...)

[youtube=425,350]gA_hNrsj2bY[/youtube]

[Russell Kanning]

how on earth can a lawyer help stop the fed thugs?
some of the poor guys in gitmo have highfalootin lawyers

[error]

how on earth can a lawyer help stop the fed thugs?
some of the poor guys in gitmo have highfalootin lawyers

Sometimes they know magic incantations which, when uttered at the right time and place, cause the fed thugs to stop what they're doing and leave people alone. Sometimes they write their magic spells down on goddamned pieces of paper instead, and it has the same effect. In this way they're certainly useful. Though sometimes it doesn't work. And the fed thugs have their own magicians.

[Sheep Fuzzy Wool]

how on earth can a lawyer help stop the fed thugs?
some of the poor guys in gitmo have highfalootin lawyers

Sometimes they know magic incantations which, when uttered at the right time and place, cause the fed thugs to stop what they're doing and leave people alone. Sometimes they write their magic spells down on goddamned pieces of paper instead, and it has the same effect. In this way they're certainly useful. Though sometimes it doesn't work. And the fed thugs have their own magicians.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bIV4KLCmJ98

[error]

There's some, uh, unusual vehicular activity outside here tonight.

[Sheep Fuzzy Wool]

There's some, uh, unusual vehicular activity outside here tonight.

Put shrubbery at the door and windows.

Hmm. Preferably cacti.

Maybe a medieval protest at a local government building would chase them away. This may catch the bought media's attention. Could bring national attention.
Just a suggestion. Wishing everyone to be safe.

[Rosie the Riveter]

There's some, uh, unusual vehicular activity outside here tonight.

define unusual

[supperman15]

hmmm,  i wonder what would happen if we started burning people in effigy.  It is cathartic as hell, and the wave length of flame light attracts the eye like nothing else.

[Rosie the Riveter]

hmmm,  i wonder what would happen if we started burning people in effigy.  It is cathartic as hell, and the wave length of flame light attracts the eye like nothing else.

That could be the definition of unusual......

[error]

Unusual means cars with out of state plates which don't belong in the neighborhood cruising back and forth.

[Rosie the Riveter]

Unusual means cars with out of state plates which don't belong in the neighborhood cruising back and forth.

Lost tourists?