Something is going on at Error's apartment!

[Dave Ridley]

woa what is this about ivy's son being grabbed by an agent?   I'm not sure if will be able to do it but someone should call the union leader reporter who just did a story on ivy...and tell them about this.   try to get this in the press post hastie.

soon as i can catch up i will try to do it but that may be a bit so dont wait for me to do it

[supperman15]

well there is some press....

Heather Hamel from WMUR-TV just stopped by the house.  They are wanting to do a story on everything.  I declined as of yet, they are encouraging anyone wanting to talk to contact them and her contact information is...

Heather Hamel
News Reporter
603-641-9009

I may be willing to talk to them but not alone.

[LordBaltimore]

And now the time has come to stand our ground and do battle...
One shot, one kill...aim small, miss small...

One other thing I've never been able to figure out is why he uses a female avatar over on the FTL BBS.
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2952

The photo is a picture of the reporter at the Concord Monitor who posts often on this forum.  Rob uses it as his avatar on nhteaparty as well.  Maybe he hopes she'll find it intimidating.  I find it ugly.

[LordBaltimore]

Margot is using a picture of Rob for her avatar, so I guess turnabout is fair play.

She only started using his photo months later.

[ArcRiley]

Isn't there any real crime out there for you to be concerned with?? I'll tell you what, while you're in Manchester doing nothing, why don't you look into the gang shootings that have been going on in my neighborhood?

We asked the same question as to why police were enforcing asinine ordinances about riding bicycles on the sidewalk and sidewalk chalking while it took them over a half hour to respond to an armed robbery at 6pm when the cop shop was a block away, long after the robber was gone.

A former cop of that city responded, "because trying to stop an armed robbery could get you shot, but you need to look like you're doing something, so we enforce laws about people who are not likely to use violent force against us".

They know very well nobody is going to shoot them.  I believe I saw quite a few people open carrying last night, if they felt any of us were violence-prone they wouldn't have been there.

So basically the feds we had at Murphy's last night were too scared to do their real jobs so they stalk and harass us instead.  We're safe, the latin kings are not.

[d_goddard]

It's stuff like this (and David Friedman's books) that transmuted me from a Libertarian into an anarcocapitalist.
If the protection service really had competition for customers, we'd get better customer service.
What's so surprising about that?

[KBCraig]

If you haven't yet checked the UL article, or refreshed the page to see all the comments, you should. There are some idjits throwing rocks in our general direction, but there are also natives speaking up in support.

One of the advantages of being a night owl is that I often get the first comment on news articles. (Lancaster is "home", even while I'm in Texas.  )

[dan_sayers]

Re:  Bill St. Claire - as far as I know, he's a good guy.  I'll do the same for him as I did for Rob and first ask him to tone down the "let's go shoot the bastards" talk.

I never saw any such talk.

I AM seeing the word violence being thrown around an awful lot. So we need to sit down and agree: Is self-defense violence? I don't believe it is and most of the people using the word are speaking as if defending yourself IS violence.

Part of the reason this concerns me is my outsider's viewpoint. I see people on here claiming with their real name that they pay no federal taxes. Feds aren't after them. So why were they after Mr. Brown? I'm sure it's possible that the amount was just so large because of his wife's business. Being post-9/11 and post USAPATRIOT Act, I'm more inclined to believe it was because they believed he was a member of a militia and/or because he was well armed. They find ways of taking the resolute citizens out one at a time because they know without COUNTERforce, we cannot stop them.

Before I get too much farther, I'd like to share my non-violence credentials to spare us all the waste of time of being marginalized as an Agent whatever for feeling a bit differently than somebody else: I've been in three self-defense situations. Even though twice I've had to point my gun at another human being to spare myself, I've never put my finger in the trigger guard. Because just as others know and hold onto, I don't WANT to shoot anybody. That said, if I remain in harm's way after letting my assailant know I am willing and able to defend myself, I might have to.

I think it's great that this group is so committed to non-violence. I'm NOT impressed with the way the group seems to exclude members that don't feel exactly as they do. I agree with Sarah that people might be walking on egg shells as a result of recent events. Which I am respectful of. I've been through the grinder myself, but not quite like what some of you have been put through. I can only imagine the toll it might take on you.

Like it or not, Mr. St. Claire's positions were true. Having a gun and being unwilling to use it IS dangerous. I believe Natalie asked why. It's because you risk becoming the victim of your own firearm. In either of the situations I had drawn, had I not shown with my attitude, body language, voice, and eyes that I was fully capable of following through, they might have prersued. It's happened before. Police are trained to approach every situation as if a weapon is present because there always is; THEY bring it.

Mr. St. Claire's other statement was that the Second Amendment was designed to enable us to protect ourselves against tyranny. Law enforcement of all stripes have been using this country's terrorist scare to amass more and more power. Which they bring to us in the all too familar methods of force and intimidation. Some (myself included; I'm on video doing exactly this) would rather try to work through it with words and from within THEIR system that THEY don't even abide by. That's your right to choose. That doesn't alter the truth of Mr. St. Claire's statements.

Again, I can only imagine what you lot are going through out there. But it's the scoffConstitutional federal agents that are in the wrong here. Not Mr. Jacobs and not Mr. St. Claire. Don't let THEM obfuscate your own non-violent resolve or otherwise blur your vision by tricking you into turning on one another. There's right and then there's wrong. Being contrary to one's own beliefs does not make one wrong. Violating the laws of this land, its citizens, due process, and all of our civil rights, does. Like it or not, it's the people that speak as if they will act that keeps our domestic enemies at bay. The Ridley Report is already rich with examples of civil servants that are willing to overstep their bounds until they realize they might meet consequences (being filmed and all).

If somebody disagrees with you, you are welcome to speak with them in an attempt to influence. Wielding force against them, if only to shove them on the other side of an imaginary line, is against the mantra of non-violence. We cannot forget that this paradigm is not new. Prior to the Revolutionary War, there was much dissidence. Many spent large amounts of time and effort trying to peaceably secure and defend their liberties. I commend and support and hope to join those who believe in non-violent resolution. I hope these people remain amenable to the POSSIBILITY that one day, defending our liberties with our arms may become necessary. Please don't willfully thin out our numbers just because some people are more willing to than others. Remember, if somebody said similar WORDS about one of us, law enforcement would do nothing. This is merely an arching of their backs to intimidate those towing the line into behaving as THEY would have you, and not as you might decide as an intelligent adult.

Sorry for length. Last time I was here, the thread was several pages younger.

[d_goddard]

I AM seeing the word violence being thrown around an awful lot. So we need to sit down and agree: Is self-defense violence? I don't believe it is and most of the people using the word are speaking as if defending yourself IS violence.

The problem is there are people who take the position that the income tax (or <your least favorite gov't program here>) is already "violence" of a sort. So these fucktards are saying "we did't start it.. but we'll finish it!" 

[LordBaltimore]

I'm NOT impressed with the way the group seems to exclude members that don't feel exactly as they do.

I'm fairly confident that most of the posters here disagree with just about everything I post, and yet here I am.

They simply draw a very clear line at violence which I applaud.

[mvpel]

Wasn't it Ayn Rand who said that the best way to stop the juggernaut is NOT to throw yourself in front of it?

[ArcRiley]

I think it's great that this group is so committed to non-violence. I'm NOT impressed with the way the group seems to exclude members that don't feel exactly as they do.

If you are a member of the free state project, then you have agreed not to initiate force.  If you break this then you are not part of us.  This is equally true with the Libertarian Party.  Your actions exclude you from us, that exclusion ends when you choose to change your behavior.

Some people attempt to twist this, stating that violence has already been made by such and such action, and that shooting people or blowing up buildings is the appropriate answer.  It is not.  It does not matter if those people posting this stuff are feds or not, they are not part of us.

In another possible reality, where we include those people in the grouping of "us", turns us all into crazy bombing people in the eyes of the world and undermines the reasons we've picked up our lives and moved to this state.  This is why I refuse to associate myself with anyone advocating, much less using, violence as a strategy or "response".

As far as self-defense goes, unless you're using a firearm in direct defense of your life, such as someone with a gun shooting at you or others, there are non-lethal/non-violent ways to protect yourself.  In most cases, where you have someone shooting at you, that reality has only come to pass because you have allowed it to reach that point.

Those who advocate violence blind themselves and create those very realities they advocate as inevitable.

[Sheep Fuzzy Wool]

As some of you know, Mike Rivero has a radio show a few hours a week.
I am sure he would like to interview some of the people being harrassed.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/
Write him. Get this word out before the instigators attempt to divide the whole community!

[Tom Sawyer]

So as to not waste the energy rehashing stuff that has been covered ad nauseam.
Forum Policy

[OnGard4Liberty]

@Dan_Sayers

I don't think too many FSP members would say that you shouldn't use defensive force to defend yourself and your family.  The thing is, as we've seen from the past, most anti-gov't agents are infiltrated and discreted by gov't agents joining and then initiating violence.  It's been done over and over and over again.  We need to make sure that it's clear that we don't support that so that this kind of thing can't happen to us.  

Why was Rob banned?  Well, first, remember that this site is not a "general FSP site."  It belongs to Russell Kanning so it conforms to his political views, which aren't  necessarily the views of the FSP members in general.  Second, as mentioned above, when this site becomes a place where people talk about killing gov't agents and such, discrediting the FSP becomes that much easier.  

Obviously, most (myself included) believe that killing a gov't agent who isn't immediately threatening your life is wrong.  It's wrong to use violence against someone who's not using it against you.  I carry a gun and am ready to use it...but I will NOT be the first person to threaten violence in any situation...I will only use it to protect myself.

Lastly, killing gov't agents is NOT the way to make change. It's not helpful.  Timothy McVeigh didn't bring me any new freedom that I'm aware of.  Do I support the right of revolution? absolutely!  Am I ever going to be a one-man revolutionary team?? Absolutely not! 

Are we in agreement?