Something is going on at Error's apartment!

[srqrebel]

Most of the people in this country still respect the police.  They assume the occasional brutality report is an anomaly or 'liberal' bias in the news, then move on with their lives. 
Unless it is damn clear the cop was wrong , and it usually isn't, you will be viewed as the aggressor by the vast majority of the public if you harm a cop.  This is why violence against the state makes it stronger. If what people believe is good and moral is suddenly under attack, they will give any power necessary to the gov't to suppress the attack. 
Gov't has the moral high ground.  violence will never be the appropriate strategy against gov't until they lose the high ground.  Other nations are at that point, this nation is not.  If you defend yourself, you will be mowed down by the gov't. 
Morally you have the right to defend yourself.  But because the gov't has the high ground, you will be the one the people fear.  This dynamic should be painfully obvious in the whole right to bear arms debate. 

David, you nailed it very well! +1

[srqrebel]

Whoa... Kat's karma just now was 1040 and Russel's was 666 

that "Russel" with the missing small "l" is diabolical

Sorry about that, Russell... I must admit, I've even laughed at others for misspelling your name -- now I'm guilty of it, too! 

[KBCraig]

I think the fallacy of revenge/justice is part of the mind-fuck that's used to convince us government is essential.

+1 for use of "mind-fuck", and a shout-out to John Warren in Boston as one of the best users of that particular technique.

[EthanAllen]

Most of the people in this country still respect the police.  They assume the occasional brutality report is an anomaly or 'liberal' bias in the news, then move on with their lives. 
Unless it is damn clear the cop was wrong , and it usually isn't, you will be viewed as the aggressor by the vast majority of the public if you harm a cop.  This is why violence against the state makes it stronger. If what people believe is good and moral is suddenly under attack, they will give any power necessary to the gov't to suppress the attack. 
Gov't has the moral high ground.  violence will never be the appropriate strategy against gov't until they lose the high ground.  Other nations are at that point, this nation is not.  If you defend yourself, you will be mowed down by the gov't. 
Morally you have the right to defend yourself.  But because the gov't has the high ground, you will be the one the people fear.  This dynamic should be painfully obvious in the whole right to bear arms debate. 

David, you nailed it very well! +1

Yes he has. And the state (I draw a distinction with governance as legitimate authority) will not lose the moral high ground until significant and deliberative covert acts of non-compliance and overt civil disobedience occurs. That will be the signal.

I prefer the old left-anarchist "dual power" strategy of building the new society in the shell of the old while the shell of the old crumbles.

[kola]

Ivy, does Rob want a lawyer present? ...maybe videotape it as well?

Kola

[kola]

Yes, and we know of a wonderful one, though we certainly do not have the resources available to retain her.   

The feds (assholes) will probally make it into some long-ass interrogation. I am thinking they will try and find something so they can throw him in jail. A lawyer may help keep him out. Maybe try bartering with the lawyer. Or paying a monthly fee.

Kola

[Ogre]

Sounds likely, since it's Friday.  If there were any way possible to postpone the meeting until Monday (or at least Sunday evening), there'd likely be less time "awaiting" arraignment.

[Bill St. Clair]

I, too, must come out of lurk mode.

If you can't afford a lawyer, just don't talk with the feds. If they had probable cause to arrest Rob, they would have done it already. Don't give them any ammunition. Tell them you are excercising your right to remain silent, and do it. Unless they subpeona you to testify in front of a grand jury or a trial jury, and give you immunity, they can't force you to tell them ANYTHING. Ever. Yes, they'll pull out all sorts of threats. Ignore them. Make them work hard for every tiny little bit of information.

These are not nice people, folks. Don't treat them as if they were. Treat them as you would a rabid dog that you're not allowed to shoot. Keep away.

But I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. If you know a good attorney and have any way to convince him/her to help you, do it.

[Ogre]

I'll apologize for the others, Ivy.  This is a battle, and unfortunately, you're on the front lines, even if that's not where you want to be.  I wish it could be otherwise.

[kola]

I told them they were welcome to get a warrant for my arrest, for which they would need probable cause of an actual crime committed. 

If they had probable cause to arrest Rob, they would have done it already. Don't give them any ammunition. Tell them you are excercising your right to remain silent, and do it.

bingo.

Kola

[slimpickens]

Sarah or heidi or whatever your name is:  When a federal agent comes in to your life and says you can either arrange to meet with me peacably OR we will get a warrant for your arrest within 24hours, you do what you have to do.  Those 24 hours apparently have turned into one week for their own purposes which I can not even begin to fathom.

I'm logging off now because I need to get away from this chaos.  This is just insane.  Those that know me have my number or know someone else that has my number.  call me if you need me.  later.

My name's Heidi, but I'll answer to either one here. 

When federal agents came into my life, I told them they were welcome to get a warrant for my arrest, for which they would need probable cause of an actual crime committed. 

It didn't happen.

They work on fear.  They like to get us going to them voluntarily, because they can work us a lot more that way without actually having to declare probable cause.  In an "informal" meeting, they can squeeze more information out.  They can lie up and down, intimidate, and bully, and take down every word and reaction of ours.  All because we got scared into doing it. 

Every successful advisor on this subject whom I've known says, Make them come and carry you out.  Never cooperate and never volunteer anything.  That's the advice I followed, and it worked for me.

Since Ivy's logged out, this is just for discussion by others who might be reading.   

I have second hand experience thru my parents of this sort of thing, and the bottom line is if they had probable cause to arrest rob, they would already have a warrant. so they are on a phishing expedition when Rob(you) talk to them, just like when you get an e-mail asking for personal info. another thing to remember is that they are "legally" allowed to LIE to Rob(you), to get Rob to self incriminate. as has been posted by others, silence is golden. I don't believe in luck, so good fortune to you, rob and everyone else
involved. (((((((((united we stand, divided we fall))))))))

[les nessman]

update: we have retained attorney Penny Dean.

  Awesome!   I've only met her once, and she is very unique. 

[supperman15]

very cool  i think we should put penny and a couple other lawyers on permanent FSP retainer.  and we may want to look into some PR stuff to.

[OnGard4Liberty]

Ivy, does Rob want a lawyer present? ...maybe videotape it as well?

Kola

Where does Evan Nappen currently reside?

[mvpel]

Bow, NH.