Offically done with nay sayers...I've got to get this off my chest.

[CNHT]

I was originally going to set up a forum at the manchfreepress.com site for us involved in the project to discuss things. Want me to set this up now?

You should include Russell in this.

LOL...you are too funny Lloyd.

[dalebert]

"Our enemies really want us to fight amongst ourselves and breed distrust. Let's foil their plans!"

Yuuhhh, I know it wasn't the meat of your message, but hey!  I'm looking for a local sigline, and this one is way up there in the ratings at the moment. 

I'm honored!

[RattyDog]

We are a bunch of very opinionated people. This shit is bound to happen.

Maybe a day or two away from the boards would help?
But what the fuck do I know? I don't do empathy so well.

I am officially in love with you. 

What can I do to get this status?

Hee hee...don't fool yourself, I'm totally in love with you too!

[Caleb]

We are a bunch of very opinionated people. This shit is bound to happen.

Maybe a day or two away from the boards would help?
But what the fuck do I know? I don't do empathy so well.

I find that some time away from the boards often does a great deal to help gain perspective.

I hope you don't get discouraged from doing the paper. I don't know what was said, but I tend to think that even the "naysayers" want to see a paper go up in Manchester. That would reach a lot of people.

[Pat K]

We are a bunch of very opinionated people. This shit is bound to happen.

Maybe a day or two away from the boards would help?
But what the fuck do I know? I don't do empathy so well.

I find that some time away from the boards often does a great deal to help gain perspective.

I hope you don't get discouraged from doing the paper. I don't know what was said, but I tend to think that even the "naysayers" want to see a paper go up in Manchester. That would reach a lot of people.

Oh screw you Caleb!!

[Caleb]

what did I do this time, PatK?

[Pat K]

what did I do this time, PatK?

LOL, sigh don't ya know by now, that is just my way of
sending love your way.

Um you know manly shooting .500 magnum, spitting tobacco, love.

[Lloyd Danforth]

what did I do this time, PatK?

I was wondering too

[Russell Kanning]

I am sorry if it seems like I am attacking you Rattydog or any of the gang working on the Manchester Free Press. You are one of my favorite people in NH and I am shocked and sad because you feel attacked (and because my wife is really mad at me). I am surprised and excited that you are going to have a baby. No way would I put you on ignore, although I sometimes don't read all of your really long posts. I think that sometimes my humor is not working on this forum. I don't know if I should hold back on some of the sarcasm. I was assuming that I couldn't hurt your feelings, so I have been cutting loose like I do with dada, loyd (I took back the l), patk, and similar friends.

Sometimes I have wanted to push you guys to get started, because I would like to see the paper up and running already. I don't think you guys have ruined your chances of success or have done damage to our movement in any way. I am sorry if I have caused any other people to attack you about your paper. I don't think you guys should make your paper like the Keene Free Press and I don't mind that we are dissimilar yet share a similar name. Since we have been distributing in Manchester, I was going to stop doing that if your paper turned out like ours. Since it will turn out very different than ours, I don't think I will be stepping on your toes to continue passing out our paper in the Manchester area. I didn't come to your meeting, because I can't come to manchester very often and because I cannot contribute to your paper, so my presence would be as a member of the peanut gallery or cheering section. I had hoped that in your first meeting I had made my support known. If you guys want to know anything about our paper, you can ask me, but otherwise I will steer really clear of commenting on your paper in any way except glowing terms.

The possible name change for our paper doesn't have anything to do with you guys. In fact if someone continues the Keene Free Press name, I will be happy that "we" have 2 "regional" papers up and running. I don't think that I own your paper. Since I have know from the start that your paper was going to be very different, I started trying to connect you guys with others who wanted to be associated with a paper of your style. I hope that has been working. I know many people prefer your guy's style.

I think it is a good idea if the Manchester Free Press starts up a forum. I might have to stay off of it, so I don't make anyone mad.

[Pat K]

what did I do this time, PatK?

I was wondering too

No you weren't, you were just waiting for the chance
to throw in some curmudgeon comment. 

[Russell Kanning]

I was originally going to set up a forum at the manchfreepress.com site for us involved in the project to discuss things. Want me to set this up now?

You should include Russell in this.

no need to include me ... unless you want to

[David]

Good luck on the future porc.  Just a suggestion, you may consider making an 'official' announcement by making a new thread.    

[dan_sayers]

I was trying to vent my frustration at the tendency within this group of people to sort of judge what other people are doing in the way of activism and also this judging of "how free" someone is living...we should just stop doing that. Right now.

Absolutely not. The biggest damage our society has suffered in recent times was the politically correct movement because it pretended that we're all the same and being otherwise--or thinking that we are--was shameful. What is freedom if not cohabitive differences?

Do you not get it?? It's not that I can't take negative talk, I just don't need to hear nay saying from people who are supposed to be my friends and who are supposed to be standing beside me in this fight for liberty.

Every day I hear "Oh, you're not as free as me, you're on a treadmill" and "Why do they think that is activism, that's nothing but holding signs" and "What, you're trying to make change from inside the system? That's stupid, you're not free!" - enough already. Let's celebrate the fact that we're all doing something, and that is better than nothing....which is what a lot of people are doing. I'm going to get enoughnegative attention from people outside this movement....I'd like to know I have the support of people around here...I don't need to hear negativity from people around here, you know?

"Not needing" nay saying from people who are supposed to be your friends and/or from people around there IS not being able to take negative talk. Natalie, I want you to know that I'm a HIGHLY feedback-oriented person. I don't like negative feedback either. But since you know it's always going to be there, you can at least take comfort in knowing that the part of it coming from your friends is from kind hearts who mean it constructively.

We'd have to sit down for an entire night for me to relate to you all the things I've lost in my life as a direct result of making poor decisions AND NOBODY LETTING ME IN ON IT until I had already crashed and burned. You can ask any of my real life friends; I make it a point to sit down with each and every one that I feel I couldn't live without and tell them point blank that if they ever have any concern, they HAVE to verbalize it.

Whoever you think I am, I guarantee I was less of a man the day before. Lesser still the day before that. And so on. I am who I am today because I had the people beneath me (from my perspective based on my values at that time) reminding me of who I didn't want to be and those above me showing where I COULD be. It's a process. Somebody showing you there's room to grow will only insult those who believe they are perfect.

I'll give you an example, if I may, in the cotext you brought up of "you're not as free as me." First and foremost, I expect that if I ever perceive those words being aimed at me, I'm aware that they might very well be true. After all, I'm not at the bottom of the barrel, but I'm certainly not at the top either. My example: I used to think I was a civil disobedient because, among other reasons, if I pulled up to a red light and there was no traffic using or about to use the intersection, I was free in mind enough to know to safely go about my day despite some christmas light arbitrarily commanding me otherwise. When I look to the freedom movement in New Hampshire, I find that my mind has only just begun to awaken. I didn't realize this because before, I was comparing myself to my neighbors here in Ohio who are, sadly, quite asleep. Once I compare myself to others much deeper into it, I see where I can grow as a person, as an activist, and as a contributor to the world around me. Likewise, if you only listen to praise, you WILL become complacent and stop to grow as a person. Plus, I learned all that merely by observing examples of others. Friends who are willing to actively "nay say" are the ones that care enough to not just set the example, but take you by the hand and help you get there. If that's not where you want to go, that's your decision. That doesn't mean the person who wanted to help is some evil, soul-sucking demon hell-bent on making you feel bad.

As a note of final irony, if you're truly against nay saying as you term it, you might want to refrain from hostile verbiage such as "are you out of your mind?" Particularly if your reason for attack is merely that somebody offered their input or because their input differed from yours. People spend a lot more time looking for Mr. Right than trying to BE Mr. Right

[shyfrog]

The biggest damage our society has suffered in recent times was the politically correct movement

+1

and by extension, the entire positive rights movement.

[RattyDog]

I was trying to vent my frustration at the tendency within this group of people to sort of judge what other people are doing in the way of activism and also this judging of "how free" someone is living...we should just stop doing that. Right now.

Absolutely not. The biggest damage our society has suffered in recent times was the politically correct movement because it pretended that we're all the same and being otherwise--or thinking that we are--was shameful. What is freedom if not cohabitive differences?

Do you not get it?? It's not that I can't take negative talk, I just don't need to hear nay saying from people who are supposed to be my friends and who are supposed to be standing beside me in this fight for liberty.

Every day I hear "Oh, you're not as free as me, you're on a treadmill" and "Why do they think that is activism, that's nothing but holding signs" and "What, you're trying to make change from inside the system? That's stupid, you're not free!" - enough already. Let's celebrate the fact that we're all doing something, and that is better than nothing....which is what a lot of people are doing. I'm going to get enoughnegative attention from people outside this movement....I'd like to know I have the support of people around here...I don't need to hear negativity from people around here, you know?

"Not needing" nay saying from people who are supposed to be your friends and/or from people around there IS not being able to take negative talk. Natalie, I want you to know that I'm a HIGHLY feedback-oriented person. I don't like negative feedback either. But since you know it's always going to be there, you can at least take comfort in knowing that the part of it coming from your friends is from kind hearts who mean it constructively.

We'd have to sit down for an entire night for me to relate to you all the things I've lost in my life as a direct result of making poor decisions AND NOBODY LETTING ME IN ON IT until I had already crashed and burned. You can ask any of my real life friends; I make it a point to sit down with each and every one that I feel I couldn't live without and tell them point blank that if they ever have any concern, they HAVE to verbalize it.

Whoever you think I am, I guarantee I was less of a man the day before. Lesser still the day before that. And so on. I am who I am today because I had the people beneath me (from my perspective based on my values at that time) reminding me of who I didn't want to be and those above me showing where I COULD be. It's a process. Somebody showing you there's room to grow will only insult those who believe they are perfect.

I'll give you an example, if I may, in the cotext you brought up of "you're not as free as me." First and foremost, I expect that if I ever perceive those words being aimed at me, I'm aware that they might very well be true. After all, I'm not at the bottom of the barrel, but I'm certainly not at the top either. My example: I used to think I was a civil disobedient because, among other reasons, if I pulled up to a red light and there was no traffic using or about to use the intersection, I was free in mind enough to know to safely go about my day despite some christmas light arbitrarily commanding me otherwise. When I look to the freedom movement in New Hampshire, I find that my mind has only just begun to awaken. I didn't realize this because before, I was comparing myself to my neighbors here in Ohio who are, sadly, quite asleep. Once I compare myself to others much deeper into it, I see where I can grow as a person, as an activist, and as a contributor to the world around me. Likewise, if you only listen to praise, you WILL become complacent and stop to grow as a person. Plus, I learned all that merely by observing examples of others. Friends who are willing to actively "nay say" are the ones that care enough to not just set the example, but take you by the hand and help you get there. If that's not where you want to go, that's your decision. That doesn't mean the person who wanted to help is some evil, soul-sucking demon hell-bent on making you feel bad.

As a note of final irony, if you're truly against nay saying as you term it, you might want to refrain from hostile verbiage such as "are you out of your mind?" Particularly if your reason for attack is merely that somebody offered their input or because their input differed from yours. People spend a lot more time looking for Mr. Right than trying to BE Mr. Right

It's super helpful to read and actually think about the words you are responding to before you respond. I think you would find it most helpful in engaging people to listen to what they say before you open your face and start talking back. But thanks for the reply.