Protest the 'View' Tax

[CNHT]

Assessing Standards Board members will be available to hear public comment on equalization and property tax issues. The main topics to be covered by the board will be general information on the equalization process and recommendations, the draft Assessing Standards Board Reference Manual, Uniform Standards Practices and Procedures (USPAP) for Assessors update, and upcoming board tasks.

2007 Assessing Standards Board and Equalization Standards Board Annual Public Forum schedule is as follows:


Thursday, November 8, 2007 at 1:30 p.m. with the LGC/NHMA Conference Center of NH Expo 700 Elm Street Manchester NH

Tuesday, November 13, 2007 at 6:00 p.m. in the Keene Public Library 60 Winter Street Keene NH

Tuesday, November 27, 2007 at 6:00 p.m. in the Rochester Public Library 65 South Main Street Rochester NH

Tuesday, December 4, 2007 at 6:00 p.m. in the Lincoln Town Hall 148 Main Street Lincoln NH

Here is what transpired at the October 30 forum:

http://tinyurl.com/ynlngl

View tax leads to call to resign
By LORNA COLQUHOUN
New Hampshire Union Leader Correspondent


COLEBROOK – At the end of a three-hour public forum of two boards that deal with taxation in New Hampshire, a Stewartstown resident called for the resignation of state Assessing Standards Board Chairman Betsey Patten.

"The basis for this request is primarily your total disregard - some might possibly even describe it as disdain - for the overwhelming taxpayer feedback last year on the contentious issue of the use of the view tax," said Richard Samson.

About 100 people turned out last night for the first of five public forums that will be conducted over the next month by the state's Assessing Standards Board and the Equalization Standards Board. Patten, a Republican state representative from Moultonborough, is the chair of the ASB.

About a dozen people spoke over the course of the three-hour meeting on topics ranging from comments about the draft of the assessing reference manual, to impassioned and personal stories about how high taxes affect families and communities.

"Why isn't there a human factor?" asked Marsha Clifford of Pittsburg, explaining how her family had to move from their Laconia home when their taxes went too high. "The human factor has to be weighed. What are we doing to the people? What good is money if you don't have the community?"

Samson charged that Patten "ignored" the signatures of more than 6,000 people last year who signed a petition requesting the board "address this aggravating problem in the calculation of the statewide property tax."

Continued Samson, "You ignored all that, even going so far as to say the whole issue was nothing more than a minor misunderstanding by a few disgruntled taxpayers. Apparently you were unwilling to provide the ASB leadership needed to regain the trust of New Hampshire property owners and taxpayers."

Immediately following Samson's remarks, Patten moved on to the next question.

After the meeting, she said she had no comment on Samson's request.

Stewartstown Selectman Hasen Burns said: "I think the board is trying. We have got to put a lot more pressure on more than these half-dozen people."

The next four forums are Nov. 8 in Manchester, Nov. 13 in Keene, Nov. 27 in Rochester and Dec. 4 in Lincoln.

[ThePug]

"Why isn't there a human factor? The human factor has to be weighed. What are we doing to the people? What good is money if you don't have the community?"

I know she's on our side on this issue, but I had to laugh when I read that. It sounds like something that would come straight from the mouth of an Ayn Rand villain.


How does the "view tax" work? I hate all property taxes, and NH's high property taxes are one of the few drawbacks of the state, but how does one separate the value of "the view" from the rest of the property's value? Are property assessments itemized like that in NH?

[KBCraig]

"Why isn't there a human factor? The human factor has to be weighed. What are we doing to the people? What good is money if you don't have the community?"

I know she's on our side on this issue, but I had to laugh when I read that. It sounds like something that would come straight from the mouth of an Ayn Rand villain.

I think his point was, the view taxes will eliminate the communities (towns, villages, what-have-you) by driving out the people. Once the people are gone, what reason is there to collect the taxes?

How does the "view tax" work? I hate all property taxes, and NH's high property taxes are one of the few drawbacks of the state, but how does one separate the value of "the view" from the rest of the property's value? Are property assessments itemized like that in NH?

View has always been a factor in determining property value, and always will be, but it wasn't such a big factor until people started buying second homes in the North Country. They want the views and are willing to pay for them; values rise.

Until recently, owners only received a tax bill showing their total valuation. Then (wisely, I think), the state required itemized tax bills, including the value of the "view".

The apologists are technically correct when they say there is not a "view tax". They're also disingenuous, because there is a tax on the value which is added by having a view.

The problem is that most people don't own or control their view. They have no say on how the view changes, or how that might affect their property value. The high dollar view might be blocked by a high-rise going in next door, or a junkyard, or the "view" might get clear-cut next week. And of course, tastes vary -- I find ski runs to be ugly un-natural gashes in the landscape, winter or summer.

The first solution is to drastically cut spending, especially school spending, because that's the major cause of high property taxes.

The second solution is to cap assessments at purchase price plus an annual index.

We have to be careful, though. If property taxes are limited, but spending isn't, it paves the way for a sales or income tax. Practically demands them, in effect.

Cut the spending first. That makes dealing with taxes much easier.

[Pat K]

As a market solution, I am willing to rent myself out
and stand in front of your window and block the view
when the tax man cometh.

[CNHT]

 The View Tax is totally subjective. Which is why it must go.

[CNHT]

As a market solution, I am willing to rent myself out
and stand in front of your window and block the view
when the tax man cometh.

LOL Pat you are always so helpful..   

[ThePug]

I think his point was, the view taxes will eliminate the communities (towns, villages, what-have-you) by driving out the people. Once the people are gone, what reason is there to collect the taxes?

Oh, I understand the point, the wording just struck me as amusing.

View has always been a factor in determining property value, and always will be, but it wasn't such a big factor until people started buying second homes in the North Country. They want the views and are willing to pay for them; values rise.

Until recently, owners only received a tax bill showing their total valuation. Then (wisely, I think), the state required itemized tax bills, including the value of the "view".

The apologists are technically correct when they say there is not a "view tax". They're also disingenuous, because there is a tax on the value which is added by having a view.

The problem is that most people don't own or control their view. They have no say on how the view changes, or how that might affect their property value. The high dollar view might be blocked by a high-rise going in next door, or a junkyard, or the "view" might get clear-cut next week. And of course, tastes vary -- I find ski runs to be ugly un-natural gashes in the landscape, winter or summer.

The first solution is to drastically cut spending, especially school spending, because that's the major cause of high property taxes.

The second solution is to cap assessments at purchase price plus an annual index.

We have to be careful, though. If property taxes are limited, but spending isn't, it paves the way for a sales or income tax. Practically demands them, in effect.

Cut the spending first. That makes dealing with taxes much easier.

I see. I agree about the spending, too. Cutting taxes without cutting spending is a recipe for disaster. See: the Bush tax cuts.

[Dan]

The View Tax is totally subjective. Which is why it must go.

It's also Built Into the value of the house every time it is assessed.  This is taxing an attribute of the property a second time.

[Raineyrocks]

As a market solution, I am willing to rent myself out
and stand in front of your window and block the view
when the tax man cometh.

Excellent business proposition!   I admire your ingenuity!

[Raineyrocks]

Funny that this view tax comes up again.  I was just sitting on the throne, (peeing), the other day thinking about it.  Now that the leaves have fallen off the trees I have a mountain view and I thought, gosh I hope this view tax issue is done with.

So should I go to the Lincoln meeting in December?  It's so hard to figure out just where Campton fits in.  At the meeting I should just speak out against it, right?

[Raineyrocks]

I think the view tax is stupid.  There are trees, lakes, mountains in a lot of places what's the big deal?  I mean look at all the people that bought houses with views that never had any idea there would ever be a view tax then all of a sudden BOOM if this passes tons of people's taxes will go up.  It's just wrong!

[Raineyrocks]

I think the view tax is stupid.  There are trees, lakes, mountains in a lot of places what's the big deal?

What do you think about the waterfront property tax?

Thank you for asking!   I think that is stupid too.  What if for example, there is an elderly couple that bought a house with a waterfront view back in the 60's or whatever and never did they dream there would be a view tax but now let's just say there is.  Isn't that going to present them with added financial burden?  Should they move at their age to lessen their financial burden?

I'm using the elderly example because it's the first thing that came to mind when thinking of this view tax.  It's a shame that a lot of old people have to work still because they can't afford to live on what social security gives them.  I know from my mom's situation, if she were living in her own house she couldn't afford the increased price of groceries, utilities, doctors, medications and then a view tax.

[CNHT]

I think the view tax is stupid.  There are trees, lakes, mountains in a lot of places what's the big deal?  I mean look at all the people that bought houses with views that never had any idea there would ever be a view tax then all of a sudden BOOM if this passes tons of people's taxes will go up.  It's just wrong!

Passes? It's already part of the illegal way they assess you.

They are trying to get it removed.

[Raineyrocks]

I think the view tax is stupid.  There are trees, lakes, mountains in a lot of places what's the big deal?  I mean look at all the people that bought houses with views that never had any idea there would ever be a view tax then all of a sudden BOOM if this passes tons of people's taxes will go up.  It's just wrong!

Passes? It's already part of the illegal way they assess you.

They are trying to get it removed.

  I don't know why I'm having such a hard time understanding and connecting what bills exist and which ones are up for a vote.  Sometimes I feel like giving up even though I really want to understand and be a help not a hindrance. Remember when we met and talked at the pizza place and I told you I didn't understand political language?  I guess you see I wasn't kidding.

So just to see now if I have a better understanding:  When we refinanced our house the way they assessed it included views that we have which would have to do with the value of the property and what we are taxed for each year?   I really thought that this view tax was a new issue that was going to be voted on but it's not, it's already a part of people's house taxes and it shouldn't be?    So the upcoming meetings are on removing it from the existing tax system?

I just reread KB's post and think I have a better understanding of it now after I made the kids be quiet so I could fully concentrate on what he wrote.

[CNHT]

No problem.

It's the people complaining to the ASB....as seen in the first post. CNHT is with them on it.