Are Bodyguard services available from a known porcupine?

[Fragilityh14]

as I understand it, it isn't a matter of "not serious" in the satirical sense, so much as crazy.

[J’raxis 270145]

*sigh*

Er, seeing as I like everyone involved here, can we keep gun play out of this?

It's amazing I even have to type that. 

Everyone that is worked up got to know each other because in the past they were all trying to help each other out.  Please remember that past.

Back during the incident with the U.S. Marshalls—exactly one month ago today, interestingly—someone commented that the whole point of the raid and the subsequent treatment of Rob, Ivy, et al., wasn't merely to acquire information about Brown supporters, but was in fact to apply pressure to the freestaters in Manchester and see what would happen. Consider the following scenario:—

They know Rob. They know he's willing to commit violence when he feels it's necessary. They know he's got some sort of serious repressed-anger issues. Being an ex-soldier, they probably know exactly what his psych profile is, what his weaknesses and likely reactions are, and so on.

They know Ivy. They know she's a single mother who will do anything to protect her child. They know she's had domestic violence issues in the past, so they have an idea about how she'll react the next time.

They probably know who Ivy's friends are, including Beth, and probably know how she's going to react to this situation too, also having dealt with abusers in the past.

When they saw Rob and Ivy together, they knew exactly where to apply pressure. Put Rob under stress, watch Rob lose his temper and say something incredibly stupid, watch Ivy and her friend panic, and watch the whole situation explode.

Here's where we were one month ago:—

 
  Brown supporter resurfaces, Canario protests grow
    The Ridley Report, 2007-10-06

And now people are talking about restraining orders and body guards and beating people up tomorrow.



Ivy, have you considered Rob's threats in light of the fact that he's under so much pressure from the feds, and that he actually does have a perfectly valid reason to suspect that some of the freestaters in Manchester are informants or outright agents? When you talked to these people who told you he fits the classic domestic abuser profile, were they aware these facts before making that judgment?

Rob, just leave before this escalates any further tomorrow. By your own system of ethics, doesn't she have a right to ask you to leave, whether or not she actually has a valid "reason" to do so? It's her apartment, her name on the lease, and essentially her private property. Also, think of the consequences of a restraining order, since she works at Murphy's... and, being a firearm owner, I'm sure you're aware of what being convicted of a "misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" means.

Beth, what do you actually hope to accomplish by going up to the apartment tomorrow and trying to deal with the situation in the manner in which you've described? If Rob's still there, do you think you're going to be able to make him leave by threatening him in person like you have on the forum? If he is armed, or with someone protecting him, do you think you're going to be able to forcibly remove him yourself?

[EJinCT]

Ivy, have you considered Rob's threats in light of the fact that he's under so much pressure from the feds, and that he actually does have a perfectly valid reason to suspect that some of the freestaters in Manchester are informants or outright agents? When you talked to these people who told you he fits the classic domestic abuser profile, were they aware these facts before making that judgment?

There is no valid excuse for what Ivy has been put through. period.

[Faber]

Right.  "Come on, guys.  Making death threats against his roommates is just how Rob deals with stress . . . ."

[J’raxis 270145]

Right.  "Come on, guys.  Making death threats against his roommates is just how Rob deals with stress . . . ."

I'm not saying that. I'm saying he snapped and said something stupid, and it has to be understood in light of what's been going on for the past month, not just as a typical domestic-violence situation.

If you willfully refuse to understand the facts involved in a given situation, don't be surprised when you can't even begin to solve them.

[EJinCT]

Right.  "Come on, guys.  Making death threats against his roommates is just how Rob deals with stress . . . ."

I'm not saying that. I'm saying he snapped and said something stupid, and it has to be understood in light of what's been going on for the past month, not just as a typical domestic-violence situation.

If you willfully refuse to understand the facts involved in a given situation, don't be surprised when you can't even begin to solve them.

This will not be the first time he has done so and I have been on the receiving end as well. There is an established pattern of repetative aggressive and negative behavior.

The solution can be simple or it can get complicated; Rob's choice.

[Faber]

A victim of burglary doesn't have to try to understand and reconcile with his thief, even if they're both Free Staters and former friends.  Some problems shouldn't be solved, but rather be defused and avoided.  Of course, once Ivy is safe, she (and Beth) should seriously consider sitting down and re-evaluating how they judge character.  They gave high praises of Rob a month ago, and now their opinion has, er, changed.  And from what I've picked up from their posts here, this isn't the first time they've made some fairly rocky judgments of character.  Thankfully, Rob decided to threaten first, rather than act first . . . the next time, they might not be so lucky 

I think your advice to Rob and Beth were spot on, for what it's worth.  I just think you really missed the boat with your advice to Ivy.

[PowerPenguin]

I wonder if this is all just a hoax...

[J’raxis 270145]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying he snapped and said something stupid, and it has to be understood in light of what's been going on for the past month, not just as a typical domestic-violence situation.

If you willfully refuse to understand the facts involved in a given situation, don't be surprised when you can't even begin to solve them.

What is your suggested solution, J?  My solution was to ask him to leave.  Simple.  He then turned and started making more threats to me and my best friend who was his friend too, making it even more clear he had violent intentions towards me.

I have a suggestion.  You can stay at my place the next few weeks and make sure I and my son are safe.  Sound okay?

[My accusation of willfully trying not to understand a situation was directed to Faber and his comment, not you.]

I didn't disagree that he has to leave. I just don't want to see this turn into a legal "domestic violence" situation with restraining orders and  court convictions and so on. Domestic violence, like school violence, seems to be one of those policy areas that are quickly being taken over by the "zero tolerance" phenomenon: I'm not sure if it works this way in New Hampshire yet, but in Massachusetts, if the police are called to a domestic violence dispute, someone will get arrested—it doesn't matter if it was a misunderstanding, it doesn't matter if the two have made up between the 9-1-1 call and the arrival of the police, it doesn't even matter if the caller refuses to press charges (the state will, on behalf of the caller)—someone will get arrested, and charged, and most likely convicted. I don't want to see this situation turn into that tomorrow morning.

I left you a PM on an idea of how to get him out of your place quicker.

[Faber]

That's why J's post didn't make much sense to me.  I thought you were taking a rather level-headed approach to all this as far as involving the police goes.  The only way you could have been more "considerate" of Rob's stress-induced death threats would be to give him a back rub and hum "Kum Ba Ya" to him as he went to sleep . . . .

[LordBaltimore]

Don't be stupid, Ivy.  Call the police.  Rob threatened to murder you, and you have a young child to consider. 

[Dan]

That's why J's post didn't make much sense to me.

J's post is exactly the best of all possible worlds at this time.  I just hope it comes true:

• 
  

  Rob, just leave before this escalates any further tomorrow. By your own system of ethics, doesn't she have a right to ask you to leave, whether or not she actually has a valid "reason" to do so? It's her apartment, her name on the lease, and essentially her private property. Also, think of the consequences of a restraining order, since she works at Murphy's... and, being a firearm owner, I'm sure you're aware of what being convicted of a "misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" means.

De-escalation and re-evaluation after a few days of calm-the-fuck down time.

[J’raxis 270145]

Thanks, Dan. Looks like Rob is either out or on the way out today.

Don't be stupid, Ivy.  Call the police.  Rob threatened to murder you, and you have a young child to consider. 

See, this is why people think you're a provocateur, Richard. You pick the most disruptive and damaging solution you can imagine, and suggest that.

[Beth221]

Well, he is out.  Miss Jello champ threatened him into moving..  I honestly dont think he was going to do it easily, until I made a HUGE stink about it. 

I know me and Ivy couldnt ask him ourselves, so taunting him online, and having everyone show concern over us really helped.  I enjoyed everyone's words.

Thank you all,

See you sometime.

[Beth221]

The only way you could have been more "considerate" of Rob's stress-induced death threats would be to give him a back rub and hum "Kum Ba Ya" to him as he went to sleep . . . .

when i get stressed I dont start threatening people I love, or who are friends??  DO you?  Actually, a month ago, Rob said that I was a good friend, and said he loved me, friendly, isnt it?? 

A Normal person when stressed does not threaten lives.  I threatened only if he was still in her place, which he is not, and come on, think I can beat up a man?  For Real?  LOL  you people give me more credit than needed.  A Man should never pick on a woman, never raise a fist  or a hand, to scare into making her believe he has the power. 

As for judgments, in my past, living with my abuser, I was 18, I have learned a lot since then.  Rob seemed like a decent person, Ivy talked to many people about him, I merely warned that he was being watched.

Live and Learn, and we have all done that.  Dont put blame on us for letting him be our friend, he is a friend of you all.(except many Kat!  We should trust her judgment, because she saw something coming!) 

I am DONE with talking about this online, on a forum.  Its shitty, and I did it to get a few messages to Rob, since he apparently was not reading my emails and such. 

If you got something to say to me, about how I handled this, about my threat to clean his clock, email me, or PM me.  Thank you ALL who supported me, I will not name names, but I have a new respect for you, my friends, who stood on my side, saying all bets are off when a man threatens or harms a woman.  Words I take to my heart, and my grave.

Lets all forget this, move on, let the air clear, and hope Rob stays a away. 

(just think a second, would if something bad really did happen?  what if he acted on that threat that night?  that is what I can not get out of my head.  People who make threats of violence are not normal, with that said, I am certainly NOT of the norm.  I am fucked as they come, thanks for watching the show!! )