Ticketed for not having paid gov't (vehicle registration)

[srqrebel]

If registration fees existed strictly to pay for road maintenance, and registration was available to anyone willing to pay the necessary maintenance fee, and tags existed strictly for the purpose of verifying payment, this issue would be very low on my radar indeed.

As it is, the state of New Hampshire will not let me obtain registration without a drivers license.  New Hampshire will not issue me a drivers license because the state of Florida has suspended my Florida license.  Florida suspended my license because I neglected to pay a traffic fine for a victimless "crime".  Finally, my tags are used not to determine that I've paid for the upkeep of the roads I use, but to determine my degree of submission to the State.  If a LEO spots my state-issued tag, he will arrest me on the spot regardless of whether I have created a victim, or not, simply for driving without the State's permission.

That, my friend, is classic tyranny.  If roads were privately owned, and subject to free market competition unfettered by government regulations, any road operator who treated his customers that way would quickly go broke for lack of repeat business.

[FTL_Ian]

 

[John Edward Mercier]

If registration fees existed strictly to pay for road maintenance, and registration was available to anyone willing to pay the necessary maintenance fee, and tags existed strictly for the purpose of verifying payment, this issue would be very low on my radar indeed.

As it is, the state of New Hampshire will not let me obtain registration without a drivers license.  New Hampshire will not issue me a drivers license because the state of Florida has suspended my Florida license.  Florida suspended my license because I neglected to pay a traffic fine for a victimless "crime".  Finally, my tags are used not to determine that I've paid for the upkeep of the roads I use, but to determine my degree of submission to the State.  If a LEO spots my state-issued tag, he will arrest me on the spot regardless of whether I have created a victim, or not, simply for driving without the State's permission.

That, my friend, is classic tyranny.  If roads were privately owned, and subject to free market competition unfettered by government regulations, any road operator who treated his customers that way would quickly go broke for lack of repeat business.

Moving violations are 'crimes' in Florida?

[srqrebel]

Moving violations are 'crimes' in Florida?

Not sure that I understand the question, though I think it regards the state's technical definition of the word "crime".

I don't know whether the state of Florida defines moving violations as "crimes" per se.  Whether or not they are technically called "crimes" by the state of Florida, I do know that if you don't pay the state's extortion fee when they charge you with a victimless "moving violation", they suspend your drivers license.  If they discover that you are disregarding their arbitrary commands by continuing to drive (still without creating a victim!), they will forcibly detain you and tow your vehicle, and charge you with additional violations for simply being "disobedient".

Whether or not a moving violation is technically defined as a "crime" by the state is a mere technicality.  The bottom line is the agents of State are guilty of initiating force and thereby creating victims where none exist, and (objectively speaking) that constitutes genuine crime in my book.

[John Edward Mercier]

Now I understand they're removing your driving priviledge... for a moment I was thinking incarceration.

[srqrebel]

By the way, I have noticed that JEM's karma keeps plummeting, and just wanted to point out that while he seems to come from a different perspective than most of us, the important thing is that he consistently stays above the fray by not engaging in personal attacks even when he comes under completely undeserved withering personal attack by other forum participants.

While the karma function is not taken seriously by many, it does offer some valuable insights.  If a completely civil forum participant gets smited into oblivion just for coming from a different perspective, what does that say about lovers of liberty?  How can we convince others that a voluntary society is a workable concept when some among us are so petty as to smite someone for politely disagreeing with our point of view?  More importantly, how can we expect to effectively spread the message of freedom and sovereignty of the individual when we engage in alienation tactics?

Whew... okay, I'm done ranting now

[srqrebel]

Now I understand they're removing your driving priviledge... for a moment I was thinking incarceration.

Of course, if I continue to get caught disobeying them, regardless of whether I have created a victim, I will be incarcerated.

In fact, I fully expect that to happen here in NH, and it will be an act of civil disobedience on my part (or more accurately, asserting my sovereignty).

[KBCraig]

Moving violations are 'crimes' in Florida?

I don't know about Florida, but they are in Texas. Every violation of the Texas Transportation code is a Class C misdemeanor or higher. There are only two traffic violations for which police may not arrest drivers: open container, and seatbelt. For every other violation, the officer may effect a custodial arrest at his discretion. (It's rare, and policy usually requires that they first give the motorist one chance to sign the "promise to appear" (aka "ticket").)

[John Edward Mercier]

So something like an arbitrarily set speeding limit would be a 'crime'?
I don't understand how all the States can have different rules and argue that they are rational.

[srqrebel]

So something like an arbitrarily set speeding limit would be a 'crime'?

Are you asking whether setting an arbitrary speed limit would be a crime, or violating an arbitrarily set speed limit would be a crime?

I'm not too familiar with legalese, but I think violating the speed limit is considered a crime in the state of Florida.  I also get the impression that NH classifies certain traffic violations as somehow beneath the level of a 'crime': When I was pulled over in Swanzey last September (for not having working license plate lights), and the officer discovered my suspended FL license, he informed me that it is the lowest possible class of infraction in NH.  Of course, what difference do their stupid classifications make, when they still put you in silver bracelets and tow your vehicle?  Afterward, in the police station, when the officer was trying to get me to accept the services of the bail commissioner, rather than going to jail until the judge could see me, he said to me, "You don't want to go to jail.  You are not a criminal".  The thought that immediately popped into my head, was, "Then why in the hell am I sitting at the police station in handcuffs??!"

I don't understand how all the States can have different rules and argue that they are rational.

Rules are created by individuals.  Individuals by their very nature have differing opinions.  I suppose the individuals responsible for creating specific rules in one state, would consider the differing rules of another state to be less rational than their own

Here's another one: How can governments routinely revise, replace, and discard old laws, yet always behave as if the latest versions of their "laws" are rational enough to force me to submit to them, in violation of my own judgement??

[Russell Kanning]

the handcuffs sure are the signal .... no matter what you call it .... they are using as much force as necessary to try to direct your actions.

[David]

Amazing.  Literally 3-4 hours earlier in the day I was saying I believed I was most likely to get pulled over in a certain short distance of highway by the state police. 
Well, on my way to smiths medical, just as I turned into bowman drive, a cop turns on his lights.  Being so close to work, and figuring I would get towed, I slowed down, but kept driving till I parked with my front wheels cocked sideways to a curb in the parking lot.  As I pulled in I opened my door to ask a coworker to tell the supervisor I would be late.  My intention was to hide my keys to try to prevent them from putting my car in neutral if they towed it. 
He asked why I didn't stop immediantly, and initially asked for both license and registration.  Gave him my license, but my glove box was locked and as I reached for my keys to open the box he said it was okay and the license was enough.  Called porc 911 just to inform that I had been pulled over, right before I had initially parked. 
Long story short, I lucked out, he let me go, no ticket, not even a threat.  canceled the porc 911. 
Oh, he initially pulled me over because I failed to use turn signals.  They did work, I just didn't use them. 

[Kat Kanning]

Wow, never heard of anyone being pulled over for failure to use turn signals, until it happen to me in Lebanon.  IT's like Ayn Rand said...make enough laws so that everyone can be a criminal.

[John Edward Mercier]

Most of the towns in the last few years have started 'quota' systems where the officers are required to make a certain number of stops each shift. They write down the info on your license and send you on your way. To me its stupid, but its nearly impossible to get local townfolk to cut the police force back.

[Porcupine_in_MA]

For years I've noticed these small New England towns with big police forces and shiny cars. Like the town of Somerset, MA for instance. Small town..not small, small but small enough and its got this big, full time police force in very new cars. One night my wife and I were depositing some money at the credit union there and some cop just stops by to in his words "see if everything was alright". I'm thinking to myself "Ummmm besides the fact that we were trying to rob the bank out in the open like this? Yeah everythings peachy-keen"