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Author Topic: Politics is an immoral dead-end  (Read 60877 times)

dalebert

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Re: Politics is an immoral dead-end
« Reply #180 on: November 14, 2007, 02:44 PM NHFT »

If there is no sound rebuttal of this argument (which I personally can think of none), I have no choice but to adopt this view as my own.

How's this for a sound rebuttal?

http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=17849.msg330601#msg330601

NOT!

This guy says you're not violating the NAP by taking a hit out on someone!
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Rosie the Riveter

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Re: Politics is an immoral dead-end
« Reply #181 on: November 14, 2007, 03:11 PM NHFT »


Quote
If there is no sound rebuttal of this argument (which I personally can think of none), I have no choice but to adopt this view as my own.

On my list of things to do for this evening, srqrebel... hope I can put together a good case.   :)


I'll be looking forward to reading your rebuttal professor.

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Kat Kanning

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Re: Politics is an immoral dead-end
« Reply #182 on: November 14, 2007, 03:16 PM NHFT »

i am not pointing fingers but i have been beggin for so real civil action on this board
none have stepped up oh well message me if you live in manch
this guy is very good at the long winded do not express you self at all
lay down your arms speech why are you not calling him out on it
dont forget
who "took" ed => his "friends" or supporters
look around
dont point fingers but know ed's "friends" who took him have "friends" here
i like this board but

I wonder what this said.  ::)
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Politics is an immoral dead-end
« Reply #183 on: November 14, 2007, 03:29 PM NHFT »

I think I will start the show tonight by discussing how both Mark and Dale's positions are counterproductive.  Feel free to call and add your thoughts.
When should I call and try to get on? I can throw in my 2 cents. :)
I have not found either of these guys as counterproductive. :)
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Politics is an immoral dead-end
« Reply #184 on: November 14, 2007, 03:38 PM NHFT »

I've noticed the contrary to be true about liberty minded,(alliteration warning) principled politico's pressuring people to participate in the political system. It seems in my experiences, those who would work outside the system have far greater contempt for those who choose to work within the system.
Personally speaking, I think both angles are necessary. I think many who don't find working inside the system to be immoral or a waste of time can appreciate what those who work outside the system do. I don't see this translate reciprocally all too often. This seem to fly in the face of individualism.
Actually ... I must have said something wrong, since I agree with you.
Those of us on the outside are usually not impressed with political insider activity, while some of you do appreciate some of what we do.
I also have found that you guys see two angles of attack ... and we see one way ... striking at the root.

But there are some politicos .... that get really worked up around election time ... and they sometimes pressure or even get angry with some of us. I am trying to put some comic relief into the tension. :)

In fact I am attempting to vote sometime soon .... but only because I am being "bought". It gets the politician off my back and lines my pocket. ;) ... not very principled, but it is fun.
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shyfrog

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Re: Politics is an immoral dead-end
« Reply #185 on: November 14, 2007, 03:41 PM NHFT »

I've noticed the contrary to be true about liberty minded,(alliteration warning) principled politico's pressuring people to participate in the political system. It seems in my experiences, those who would work outside the system have far greater contempt for those who choose to work within the system.
Personally speaking, I think both angles are necessary. I think many who don't find working inside the system to be immoral or a waste of time can appreciate what those who work outside the system do. I don't see this translate reciprocally all too often. This seem to fly in the face of individualism.
Actually ... I must have said something wrong, since I agree with you.
Those of us on the outside are usually not impressed with political insider activity, while some of you do appreciate some of what we do.
I also have found that you guys see two angles of attack ... and we see one way ... striking at the root.

But there are some politicos .... that get really worked up around election time ... and they sometimes pressure or even get angry with some of us. I am trying to put some comic relief into the tension. :)

In fact I am attempting to vote sometime soon .... but only because I am being "bought". It gets the politician off my back and lines my pocket. ;) ... not very principled, but it is fun.

So in light of my satire on Vote Control in Endless Debate and Whining, you've been hired as a hit man. hmmm
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anarchicluv

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Re: Politics is an immoral dead-end
« Reply #186 on: November 14, 2007, 03:44 PM NHFT »

Although I am at heart an anarcho-capitalist/voluntaryist, I realize that it's going to take time to get from where we are currently to where I'd like to be.  I have been a non-voter and stayed completely out of politics for the same moral reasons many voluntaryists have.  But I have come to realize that short of a complete crash of society, we'll never get from here to there by sitting on the sidelines.  The system exists whether or not we agree with it, and it will continue to perpetuate itself until we force it back to its roots; and we can only do that by participating in the system.  If we could return this country to a Constitutional Republic, it would be a HUUUUUUUGE step towards the anarcho-capitalist ideal I so hope for. 

I for one will continue to fight for a return to Constitutional Republicanism, and will still in my heart and in my actions otherwise support anarcho-capitalism and voluntaryism.  That is the ideal, but we're nowhere close to achieving it in our current reality.
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Rocketman

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Re: Politics is an immoral dead-end
« Reply #187 on: November 14, 2007, 03:56 PM NHFT »

Although I am at heart an anarcho-capitalist/voluntaryist, I realize that it's going to take time to get from where we are currently to where I'd like to be.  I have been a non-voter and stayed completely out of politics for the same moral reasons many voluntaryists have.  But I have come to realize that short of a complete crash of society, we'll never get from here to there by sitting on the sidelines.  The system exists whether or not we agree with it, and it will continue to perpetuate itself until we force it back to its roots; and we can only do that by participating in the system.  If we could return this country to a Constitutional Republic, it would be a HUUUUUUUGE step towards the anarcho-capitalist ideal I so hope for. 

I for one will continue to fight for a return to Constitutional Republicanism, and will still in my heart and in my actions otherwise support anarcho-capitalism and voluntaryism.  That is the ideal, but we're nowhere close to achieving it in our current reality.

Very good post.  One question -- do you think "a complete crash of society" under our current circumstances would bring about "the anarcho-capitalist ideal (you) so hope for?"
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Faber

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Re: Politics is an immoral dead-end
« Reply #188 on: November 14, 2007, 04:58 PM NHFT »

If we could return this country to a Constitutional Republic, it would be a HUUUUUUUGE step towards the anarcho-capitalist ideal I so hope for. 

What happened the last time we had a Constitutional Republic?
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Rocketman

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Re: Politics is an immoral dead-end
« Reply #189 on: November 14, 2007, 05:02 PM NHFT »

If we could return this country to a Constitutional Republic, it would be a HUUUUUUUGE step towards the anarcho-capitalist ideal I so hope for. 

What happened the last time we had a Constitutional Republic?

Another way to put the same question: What happened the last time we had an Age of Enlightenment?
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CNHT

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Re: Politics is an immoral dead-end
« Reply #190 on: November 14, 2007, 05:07 PM NHFT »

One question -- do you think "a complete crash of society" under our current circumstances would bring about "the anarcho-capitalist ideal (you) so hope for?"

To have total anarchy would then insure that we would all be required to use force just to survive.
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dalebert

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Re: Politics is an immoral dead-end
« Reply #191 on: November 14, 2007, 05:32 PM NHFT »

To have total anarchy would then insure that we would all be required to use force just to survive.

How could it possibly be any different than now? If someone attacks you in our "safe" nanny-state, I suggest you be prepared to defend yourself. Are you going to call the police and ask your attacker to wait for them to arrive? If we had no police, and no accompanying false sense of security, a lot more people would be armed. Being a criminal in such a society is playing Russian roulette. I would anticipate a lot less crime, and that's even if you ignore the vast number of crimes the police and politicians wouldn't be around to commit without consequences as they do now, i.e. the source of most crime today.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 07:39 PM NHFT by dalebert »
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Rodinia

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Re: Politics is an immoral dead-end
« Reply #192 on: November 14, 2007, 05:48 PM NHFT »

I've noticed the contrary to be true about liberty minded,(alliteration warning) principled politico's pressuring people to participate in the political system. It seems in my experiences, those who would work outside the system have far greater contempt for those who choose to work within the system.
Personally speaking, I think both angles are necessary. I think many who don't find working inside the system to be immoral or a waste of time can appreciate what those who work outside the system do. I don't see this translate reciprocally all too often. This seem to fly in the face of individualism.
Actually ... I must have said something wrong, since I agree with you.
Those of us on the outside are usually not impressed with political insider activity, while some of you do appreciate some of what we do.
I also have found that you guys see two angles of attack ... and we see one way ... striking at the root.

But there are some politicos .... that get really worked up around election time ... and they sometimes pressure or even get angry with some of us. I am trying to put some comic relief into the tension. :)

In fact I am attempting to vote sometime soon .... but only because I am being "bought". It gets the politician off my back and lines my pocket. ;) ... not very principled, but it is fun.

Maybe, what the tree needs is a damned fine pruning. I'm just offering another perspective. Going along with the liberty tree analogy, I don't want to kill it, I want it healthy. I want the tree to thrive.
As a gardner, I know the obvious way to accomplish this is by trimming off the growth that is retarding the plant from springing new, healthy growth. With a little nurturing, we could have fruit.
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anarchicluv

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Re: Politics is an immoral dead-end
« Reply #193 on: November 14, 2007, 06:14 PM NHFT »

Although I am at heart an anarcho-capitalist/voluntaryist, I realize that it's going to take time to get from where we are currently to where I'd like to be.  I have been a non-voter and stayed completely out of politics for the same moral reasons many voluntaryists have.  But I have come to realize that short of a complete crash of society, we'll never get from here to there by sitting on the sidelines.  The system exists whether or not we agree with it, and it will continue to perpetuate itself until we force it back to its roots; and we can only do that by participating in the system.  If we could return this country to a Constitutional Republic, it would be a HUUUUUUUGE step towards the anarcho-capitalist ideal I so hope for. 

I for one will continue to fight for a return to Constitutional Republicanism, and will still in my heart and in my actions otherwise support anarcho-capitalism and voluntaryism.  That is the ideal, but we're nowhere close to achieving it in our current reality.

Very good post.  One question -- do you think "a complete crash of society" under our current circumstances would bring about "the anarcho-capitalist ideal (you) so hope for?"

No, I don't.  I was saying that right now we have a means to get from here to there by participating in the system and helping to restore our Republic.  The only other option is to build it from the ground up after a societal crash, God forbid.
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anarchicluv

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Re: Politics is an immoral dead-end
« Reply #194 on: November 14, 2007, 06:16 PM NHFT »

If we could return this country to a Constitutional Republic, it would be a HUUUUUUUGE step towards the anarcho-capitalist ideal I so hope for. 

What happened the last time we had a Constitutional Republic?

The state took over education and people stopped being taught correct principles and about how to keep a Constitutional Republic alive. 
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