Politics is an immoral dead-end

[Russell Kanning]

yea .... following your passions, should be enjoyable

... the fun of posting late ... it is like you get the last word in an argument

[shyfrog]

moo

[Russell Kanning]

Russell ... I really don't understand the split very much. Never have. I enjoy the ideas on both ends of the spectrum and have never really latched on to either ideal with any amount of zeal other than wanting to be involved and lending what talent I do have to the causes.

Somehow I missed this post ... sometimes the forum messes up.
We all see it differently.
I have found many people who still do "politics" like both inside and outside government activism. Whereas us "outsiders" usually have no appreciation for the political rangling.
Us crazy fundies will always be like this. One of my goals in my actions and promotion of similar activities is to attract 20-year-old-radical-purists who want nothing to do with the political treadmill. I think it is working.
... nothing like striking at the root.
But I will always be friends with those that want us all to live with more personal liberty, but are currently caught on the treadmill. I can sometimes be bribed to run alongside. It is a wild ride.

[David]

Liberty is the goal no matter the method.
Focus on the prize, not the means.

That is a dangerous philosophy to live by when taken to its logical conclusion.   

I don't get too worked up about the differences between the two positions, even though I agree with Vitruvian.  To be honest though, I do enjoy the debate, it helps to clarify my own positions in my head, clear out the cobwebs so to speak.   

[shyfrog]

Liberty is the goal no matter the method.
Focus on the prize, not the means.

That is a dangerous philosophy to live by when taken to its logical conclusion.   

I don't get too worked up about the differences between the two positions, even though I agree with Vitruvian.  To be honest though, I do enjoy the debate, it helps to clarify my own positions in my head, clear out the cobwebs so to speak.   

If that is taken to mean anything other than non-violent means, you're all on serious drugs. This isn't the GOP forum (or the Donkey discussion)

[David]

I assume YOU would not do so violently, (politics aside    ), but that statement has cause a tremendous amount of misery when taken to its conclusion.  Many, many people believe the ends justify the means. 
I would never accuse you of violence, unless I had some proof of it.  No insult intended. 

[error]

I still would like to see the jerk smiley here...

[cathleeninnh]

Damn, I love New Hampshire!

Cathleen

[MaineShark]

Voting is force, but that only restricts pacifists - not anarchists - from using it.  If it is used for defensive purposes, then it is fully legitimate force, and not a violation of the ZAP.

I disagree.  Electoral voting is aggressive force.  While the simple act of pulling a lever or pushing a button in the voting booth does not constitute violence, the result of the act most certainly does.  When a person votes to elect another to a position of power, he or she is accomplice to every crime of the elected other.

Again, that's what the system called "democracy" says.  By accepting that, you are implicitly accepting that system.

If some rapist has you tied up and is about to have his way with you, and you tell him to please use the lube that's sitting on the shelf over there, that doesn't make you a willing participant.  You are still a victim.  You have merely acted to mitigate the injury you would suffer.

To look at it from a more technical standpoint, the claim that voting supports the actions of a given candidate is based on the notion that you have contracted with that candidate to do certain things, so you bear responsibility for his actions as a result.  I think that's a good summary...

Well, the system as it exists puts all of us in a state of duress.  They have the power to use violence to obtain compliance with their arbitrary rulings.  Since we are placed under duress by them, we cannot form a legitimate contract with them.  Contract obtained under duress are not valid.  As such, there is no contractural responsibility on the part of the electorate for the actions of the politicians.

For instance, many of the political types intend to vote for Ron Paul in one year's time.  Although Ron Paul will probably commit far fewer crimes than the other contenders, some innocents will assuredly suffer by his hand or those of his administration.  Your vote makes possible the commission of these crimes and ensures they continue in perpetuity.

To look at it another way, I would never vote for Ron Paul, but I would vote against every other candidate in that race.  But, as stated above, responsibility for his actions cannot exist with the electorate, due to the state of duress created by the government.  Contracts are simply not valid if obtained under duress.

Joe

[MaineShark]

That's certainly the case.  I just don't like taking the easy way

I believe it.
Holy schnickees Joe .... look at your karma .... how did you get so much positive and negative? You make me look like an uncontrovesial character.

Apparently, there is someone, or some small group of someones, who likes to smite me pretty much every hour, attempting to keep me at -5

And there are folks here who take offense at that and applaud me on a regular basis to bring me back up.

Joe

[Kat Kanning]

I finally figured out how to look in the database at who does what with karma.  There isn't much info, but it appears just one persistent person is dinging your karma.  Seems like he'd get a life.

[PattyLee loves dogs]

"I just saved a bunch of money by switching to Ron Paul!"

Say, error, that's brilliant. Did you steal that from GEICO or did someone else?

[FTL_Ian]

I think I will start the show tonight by discussing how both Mark and Dale's positions are counterproductive.  Feel free to call and add your thoughts.

[bill rose]

i am not pointing fingers but i have been beggin for so real civil action on this board
none have stepped up oh well message me if you live in manch
this guy is very good at the long winded do not express you self at all
lay down your arms speech why are you not calling him out on it
dont forget
who "took" ed => his "friends" or supporters
look around
dont point fingers but know ed's "friends" who took him have "friends" here
i like this board but

question911.com

infowars.com

much more info

[d_goddard]

I think I will start the show tonight by discussing how both Mark and Dale's positions are counterproductive.

I will listen only if the liner notes clearly identify this segment as "FTL masturbates with listeners"