"Vaccinate your kids or go to jail!"

[Faber]

Atheism is a religion?

No more than "Theism" is. There are atheist religions, though. Like Objectivism.

As for vaccinations, I'm wholly unconvinced about the supposed evils of them, but I still absolutely oppose making them mandatory.

"Theism" isn't a religion, but it's the word used to describe many many religions, including Christianity and Islam.  But Objectivism isn't a religion, either.  It's a philosophy with some problems, and it turned into a cult of personality as it grew, but it's not a religion . . . .

Agreed 100% on the vaccine thing, though.  It's a terrible action taken by the government: vaccination should be widespread and voluntary.

[MaineShark]

I dislike it when under religion Atheism is an option...it should be "none"

"None" would be agnosticism, not atheism.  They are very different.

Joe

[ThePug]

Atheism is a religion?

No more than "Theism" is. There are atheist religions, though. Like Objectivism.

As for vaccinations, I'm wholly unconvinced about the supposed evils of them, but I still absolutely oppose making them mandatory.

"Theism" isn't a religion, but it's the word used to describe many many religions, including Christianity and Islam.  But Objectivism isn't a religion, either.  It's a philosophy with some problems, and it turned into a cult of personality as it grew, but it's not a religion . . . .

Agreed 100% on the vaccine thing, though.  It's a terrible action taken by the government: vaccination should be widespread and voluntary.

I know "theism" isn't a religion- that was my point. As for Objectivism, that was just a dig at the Randroids. Though if you really think about, the only difference between the hard-core ARI school of Objectivism and a religion is a lack of the supernatural. Thus it could be characterized as an "atheist religion". They even have their own Pope, the infallible voice of their prophet on Earth-  Pope Peikoff I.

Rand had some good ideas, some bad ideas, and a whole lot of crazy ideas. But she did do a lot to bring people to the freedom movement, so I don't have a problem with her so much as I do the cult-like mindset of some of her followers.

[coffeeseven]

Rand is on Youtube in an interview with (I think) Dick Cavett. Crusty old pigeon she is but you're right she opened a lot of eyes.

When we started looking at schools for our kids we were told that there only two kinds of exemptions from vaccinations - Medical and religious and that the state (hellinois) "may disregard" the medical exemption.

[error]

I have a religious objection to the State. Does that count?

[Ogre]

Sorry, no.  In this country, today, the state is the highest power, bar none.  Well, according to the state, anyway.

[coffeeseven]

I just got this yesterday.

From: Colette Bernhard <birthnews@earthlink.net>
X-Yahoo-Profile: birthnews
Sender: ILMidwives@yahoogroups.com
Mailing-List: list ILMidwives@yahoogroups.com; contact ILMidwives-owner@yahoogroups.com
Delivered-To: mailing list ILMidwives@yahoogroups.com
List-Id: <ILMidwives.yahoogroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: < mailto:ILMidwives-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:09:37 -0600
Subject: [ILMidwives] Did you/will you leave Illinois to give birth?
Reply-To: ILMidwives@yahoogroups.com
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email-tradh-m

We are looking for three, four or five women/families to highlight in a publication for legislators about the suboptimal choices women/families in Illinois are forced into due to the lack of DEMidwifery licensure in Illinois.

If you have either left the state in the past, or are planning to leave soon, to give birth, please contact us, so we can get your story!

We're looking for geographically diverse stories, so please be aware that, even if we don't pick you for this project, we'd like to hold on to your info for potential future uses (e.g. press releases, etc). We'll also be asking about other "suboptimal choices" in the near future, so don't worry, if you want to be involved but don't fit this email's category. There will be plenty of opportunities coming soon!

If you don't fit into a suboptimal character, you could, instead, volunteer to help us organize this project.

Please contact me if you can help, (and forgive me in advance if I take a few days to get back w/you.)

Colette M. Bernhard
Ask me about home birth midwives!
birthnews@earthlink.net
http://homebirthishealthy.org/
(773) 278-8625 - office
(773) 504-8442 - cell

See the Chicago premiere of Ricki Lake's new film, The Business of Being Born
Enjoy dinner and the film at the Fireside Restaurant, Chicago. Sunday evening, November 11th, 2007
Proceeds benefit the Coalition for Illinois Midwifery www.brownpapertickets.com/event/21221

[John Edward Mercier]

Thimerosal was removed in 2001, except from flu vaccines. But its not the methyl mercury format.

[coffeeseven]

Thimerosal was removed in 2001, except from flu vaccines.

Thimerosol is still in diphtheria - tetanus - pertussis (DTP), hepatitis B, the Wyeth flu shot, Haemophilus influenza type B, Japanese encephalitis, meningococcal and the Rabies Vaccine

http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html

But its not the methyl mercury format.

Then what format is it? I'll admit that I haven't heard of the new and improved Mercury-free Thimerosol.

Disclaimer / Investigate: The intent of this website is to raise awareness about the controversial aspects of vaccination. Many vaccines still contain thimerosal (49.6% ethylmercury by weight.) While mercury is a highly toxic element second only to radioactive plutonium, when combined with other ingredients, specifically aluminum and formaldehyde, the synergistic effects increase 10,000-fold. Individuals who suffer from chronic mercury exposure will have a unique expression of symptoms. This presentation is not to be construed as medical or legal advice: locate and confer with a trusted physician and lawyer.

[John Edward Mercier]

They have non-thermisol DTP. Two you listed are flu shots. Rabies and the others aren't usually given to the general public prior to exposure or outbreak. A little different than the vaccines we're talking about that are given to perfectly healthy people.

I also stated methyl mercury, not ethyl mercury. The largest risk of ethyl mercury in NH is from freshwater fish. A warning to pregnant women is given out by the State.

[kola]

quote:They have non-thermisol DTP.
---------------------------------
Can you tell me who is "they" and where specifically can a parent go to get non thimerosal DPT.


quote: I also stated methyl mercury, not ethyl mercury. The largest risk of ethyl mercury in NH is from freshwater fish. A warning to pregnant women is given out by the State.
----------------------------
but the flu shot (with thimerosal) is recommended for pregnant women?


Kola



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[John Edward Mercier]

quote:They have non-thermisol DTP.
---------------------------------
Can you tell me who is "they" and where specifically can a parent go to get non thimerosal DPT.


quote: I also stated methyl mercury, not ethyl mercury. The largest risk of ethyl mercury in NH is from freshwater fish. A warning to pregnant women is given out by the State.
----------------------------
but the flu shot (with thimerosal) is recommended for pregnant women?



Kola



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Wikipedia list Europe as having the current non-thermisol DTP vaccine (link below)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DPT_vaccine

Check with your pediatrician to see if you can specifically request it (very good activism subject here as all options should be available).
It also contains very pertinent information as to side effects.
As for the flu vaccines... I personally avoid them. But the methyl mercury has yet to be proven damaging at the preservation dosage level.

[coffeeseven]

I'm just not comfortable with pharma. Contrary to how they would have us believe they are not the only way. So many things have hit the market only to be recalled after huge damage has been done and it's like oooopsie, sorry we f'd up your kids. There'll be no Eth or Meth  for my kids. I keep them reasonably clean (they're kids after all), keep the immune system strong, watch dermal punctures and abrasions, go with homeopathics. All is well.

I'm not saying alopaths don't have their place like a broken bone or the mad infection gone to flower. They're just not our first recourse.

[Faber]

You guys are barking up the wrong tree, it looks like.  Turns out that WI-FI is causing autism!

"A study published this week in the Australasian Journal of Clinical Environmental Medicine warns that wireless communication technology may be responsible for accelerating the rise in autism among children."

Homeopathic theory just doesn't make any sense.  The water magically "remembers" the properties of the substance that's supposed to be the healing agent, even though there's nothing of the healing agent chemically in the water.  But why doesn't it remember the properties of fish pee, even though it's been sent through a filtration machine and there's nothing of the pee chemically in the water?

[kola]

I always find it difficult to discuss the vaccine issue with a few short sentences and jump from topic to topic. It is such a complex and emotionally based topic that it becomes quite the challenge to get to the truth of matters. Anyway:


quote:Wikipedia list Europe as having the current non-thermisol DTP vaccine (link below)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DPT_vaccine
================================================

wikipedia is not considered reliable peer review medical info.  Even if it is true that Europe DPT has no preservative that is of little help here to USA folks. 




quote: Check with your pediatrician to see if you can specifically request it (very good activism subject here as all options should be available).
===============================================
Pediatricians would be the last people I would ask. their bread and butter revolves around jabbing innocent kids with toxic poisons.



quote:It also contains very pertinent information as to side effects.
===================================================
Most pro-vaccines (CDC based) literature I read is severely biased and blatent lies. 



quote:
As for the flu vaccines... I personally avoid them. But the methyl mercury has yet to be proven damaging at the preservation dosage level.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Methyl and ethylmerc are  2 different compounds. OTOH just because something is "not proven" does not mean it is safe. This is the pro-vaccine battle cry. Then when it is (without a doubt) proven, it is quickly ridiculed as a sham, the researchers are attacked, the VALID UNDENIABLE research is quickly scoffed at and swept under the rug.(ie Geier and Geier Study, Dr Andrew Wakefield's study) 

Big Pharm has total control.   

Alex Jones's webpage is doing a great job of tracking the forced vax issues. That scenario is another great example of the ignorant people ( health pros, school nurses etc and the corrupt corporate media) who flat-out lie to the public...and then they have the fricken nerve to threaten people who do not comply with jailtime.

There is no law that says you must vaccinate. It is pure and evil deception.

Kola