Big, bad news! Liberty Dollar offices raided.

[Russell Kanning]

This originally was a meeting just of Liberty Dollar Associates, but now its a meeting for any hard money lover to discuss what legal and political steps to take next.  (Had to throw "legal and political" in there because there are undoubtedly trolls reading this forum waiting for us to go violent so they can bash us.  We'll fool them, just like Gandhi did.) 

I hope the meeting goes well .... but "legal and political steps"  .... ack!
the LD guys kept trying to do what was "legal" ... and they still got squashed.
they even dropped the "norfed" thing (trying to end the Fed Reserve) ... and still they were crushed
they tried to get justice ... through the "justice" system ... and still they were raided

nonviolent sounds good to me ... I would also recommend "outside their evil system"

have fun guys ... I love the "avenge the Liberty Dollar" slogan

[error]

My name and address is on the list of data seized from Liberty Dollar.

I've tangled with the feds before, on an unrelated matter. It wound up being highly embarrassing for them. The higher ups don't like being publicly embarrassed, and as you probably know, in a bureaucracy shit rolls downhill. And when Members of Congress call your boss's boss and ask what the hell you thought you were doing...

This is what's about to happen to one overzealous prosecutor in Asheville, N.C.

[CNHT]

I'd like to know:

1) What crime is there in owning precious metals that would give them the right to confiscate it?

2) How can anyone who did business with these people be charge with co-conspiracy as noted in the warrants?


How in hell could they have let these jokers in? Why didn't they deal with them as one would with any common thieves?

[error]

People who had outstanding orders with Liberty Dollar should be able to get their stuff but it apparently requires filing some sort of claim with the government to release the property. (Assuming they don't just return it all tomorrow and admit their mistake, but I doubt that will happen.) More details as I figure this thing out.

[coffeeseven]

Truth be told this is probably a tax issue. Eliminate the cattle's option to use alternative currencies and herd them into the federal reserve note pen. Selling a t-shirt and a '99 Cadillac. 

[CNHT]

Truth be told this is probably a tax issue. Eliminate the cattle's option to use alternative currencies and herd them into the federal reserve note pen. Selling a t-shirt and a '99 Cadillac. 

A 'tax' issue? How so?

Yeah wow, we people who drive '99 cars are really suspect eh? 

[Ogre]

While I am a huge fan of nonviolent resistance, I wonder at this point, in this particular case, if that can have absolutely any practical effect.  The feds have already taken the dies.  They've seized the gold.  They've completely destroyed the Liberty Dollar business.  Good luck getting any seized assets from the government, ever.  Sure, file a class action lawsuit -- but the judges have already ruled that it's illegal to do whatever the Liberty Dollar folks are doing, so I will be absolutely shocked if that lawsuit is even allowed to proceed.  Go ahead, call your Congressman -- but since the FBI is in the executive branch, don't expect anything to happen there, either.  Want to protest?  As long as the media cares about OJ's trial, they won't cover you.  And unless you've got thousands of people, don't look for anyone else to care because they've got to get little Johnny to soccer practice on time.

It could end up being a tax issue, now that the feds have all the records.  I bet they do come up with tax evasion charges because the LD folks sold stuff without collecting sales tax.

Again, I love nonviolent resistance, but in this case I cannot see any possible way it can effect anything.  The feds continue to win and continue to crush anyone who dares to resist them.  It's going to have to get a lot, lot worse before it gets better, unfortunately.

[Kat Kanning]

If something is in need of defending, it takes lead.

Are you asking to be added to the ban list?

[Ogre]

Oh, and checking out the US Mint's site ( at http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/index.cfm?flash=yes&action=HotItems ), it seems clear that the list of customers has been seized so that the FBI can get those people, too:

Consequently, prosecutors with the United States Department of Justice have concluded that the use of NORFED's "Liberty Dollar" medallions violates 18 U.S.C. § 486.

If your name is on their customer list, expect a visit from the feds.

[penguins4me]

If something is in need of defending, it takes lead.

No.

They aren't going to fear guns.  That will only make them stronger.

To defend you have to make the aggressor realizes that he is bring crap down on his own head by his own action.
If those guys wake up to a thousand e-mails, asking why they are thieves, they are going to have to ask themselves why.

It was mentioned that the courts were silly, a retort was made that should not the LD folks defend themselves? I intended to point out that the time for defense was past, since the theft had already been carried out, and that if defense was warranted, defense requires force (assuming the defender couldn't merely run away from the attacker).

[Kat Kanning]

Are YOU planning on starting shooting if they come to visit you, or are you just suggesting other people do so?

[penguins4me]

If something is in need of defending, it takes lead.

Are you asking to be added to the ban list?

I did not mean to insinuate that the LD folks should have shot the bastards, but simply that if some party absolutely must defend something, that defense would require force.

Oh, and checking out the US Mint's site ( at http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/index.cfm?flash=yes&action=HotItems ), it seems clear that the list of customers has been seized so that the FBI can get those people, too:

Use would seem to be different than possession, even assuming that the goons really were out to get every single individual who bought stuff from the LD folks.

[Lloyd Danforth]

I'm hoping that no one here suggests that they didn't have the right to defend their property with force.
Had they mounted the same defense of their property that they should have been prepared to mount in the case of non-government thieves, this would have made it into the national news.

[Ogre]

Use would seem to be different than possession, even assuming that the goons really were out to get every single individual who bought stuff from the LD folks.

Yes, but keep in mind this is government.  They have literally unlimited resources.  I can easily see them taking the list and going to every single person on this list and asking them, "Gee, do you still have those dollars?  Can I see them?  Have you ever given any to anyone?"  I can easily imagine harassment of all owners of LD.  Sure, most people who own them know better than to answer those questions, but still, it's about power and control, and harassment works for the feds.

[penguins4me]

Are YOU planning on starting shooting if they come to visit you, or are you just suggesting other people do so?

Hah! Over this? Hardly.

Since you asked, though, there are other matters in which I'd be less obliged to cater to the whims of the authorities.