Big, bad news! Liberty Dollar offices raided.

[mvpel]

They're 2007 issue, so what makes you think they didn't buy them at $12.25 each in bulk from the Mint back in January, and are clearing $3 an ounce on them right now?  The Mint charges more than dealers, since they want you to principally deal with dealers anyway.

Also, with respect to the Liberty Dollar, you're comparing an MS69 with a PR69DCAM.

[Eli]

MS69 with a PR69DCAM.

What does that even mean?

[mvpel]

"MS" stands for "Mint State," and "PR" stands for "PRoof," which is a different production process than the standard circulation-quality minting - see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_coinage

In 1986, PCGS (Professional Coin Grading Service) was incorporated. They authenticated, graded and encapsulated coins in a protective hard plastic shell. They used a combination of the two older systems putting letters and numbers together so that the grades became BS-1 (or PO-1), FR-2, AG-3, G-4, G-6, VG-8, VG-10, F-12, F-15, VF-20, VF-25, VF-30, VF-35, XF-40, XF-45, AU-50, AU-53, AU-55, AU-58, MS-60, MS-61, MS-62, MS-63, MS-64, MS-65, MS-66, MS-67, MS-68, MS-69 and MS-70. They also issued limited guarantees for the value of coins they had graded.

The march to finer and finer distinction had taken another huge step. Alongside this scale was a similar one for proof coins PR-01 or PF-01 through PR-70 or PF-70 that was roughly equivalent to the MS scale, except for proof coins[1]. This is important as in some issues distinguishing between mint state (for commerce) and proof coins is very difficult and specialized and the price differences can be large in favor of either MS or PR/PF.

The "DCAM" designation is for "deep cameo" - where the features of the coin have a frosted effect in sharp contrast to the mirror-like field, like so:

[Little Owl]

So is there any more news about this whole raid thing?

[Russell Kanning]

I missed some of the thread.
Would producing a 'Shire' at spot + a constant marketing price work?

why not .... you could have a % markup

[jaqeboy]

Anyone ever check out the services of coinable.com?

[Puke]

Silver prices are down a bit this week. 

[Jacobus]

December 5, 2007

Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters,

Liberty Dollar Lives! Announcing the Arrest Dollar!

URGENT NOTICE: We are preparing to file the Class Action Lawsuit (CAL)
to begin the process to get your property back. PLEASE register for
the CAL immediately at:
http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php. PLUS, the digital
Liberty Dollar (eLD) has been turned on! Now you can check your
balance, transfer eLD between accounts and get a digital Liberty
Dollar emailed to you so you can be a part of the Class Action
Lawsuit. Right now there are over 2500 people on the CAL. We would
like to double that to 5,000 names. Please join today.

And in a tremendous show of support for the Class Action Lawsuit,
$2000 in eLibertyDollars have been donated towards the CAL. If you
need an eLD to qualify for the CAL, just sign up and send in a
donation and we will credit an eLibertyDollar to your digital account.
PLEASE SIGN UP TODAY... The CAL action is pending. We`are moving
aggressively to protect your property that backs up the paper and
digital currency.

Now the BIG news. In defiance of the brutal raid that confiscated all
of our metals, computers and almost everything, except our free
independent spirit... The Liberty Dollar has re-opened and lives with
the new "Arrest Dollar"! Thanks to the outpouring of support and the
rock solid encouragement from the Regional Currency Offices (RCO), I
am proud to be a part of such a staunch organization that refuses to
bow to this senseless raid by the FBI and Secret Service that did
everything possible to close the voice for Sound Money.

As Jason Hornberger, the President of www.FFF.org commented: "If the
government wishes to have a business shut down, the law provides a
remedy called an injunction, which is a formal order issued by a judge
that requires a person or business to cease and desist from engaging
in a certain operation."

We have not received any injunction. Nor a cease and desist order. We
have not done anything wrong. We stand on the principle that we are
innocent until proven guilty. As free men and women we can do whatever
we wish... so long as we do not violate the Law. With 33 years in this
industry and no knowledge of any crime plus the advise of legal
counsel... I hereby announce the Liberty Dollar lives as "Liberty Dollar
Numismatics".

Now, don't get me wrong. We have not dropped our goal of "returning
America to value' by providing an "inflation proof" currency. Nor have
we become just a "collectable" business. We remain dedicated to our
original goals. It is just that we must make-do with what we have and
what we can do.

The Liberty Dollar office is now re-opened! Sarah Bledsoe, the trusty
manager who was at the Evansville office when I arrived from Hawaii,
will continue to man the office. Unfortunately, she will be alone, so
if you don't reach her, please leave a message.

Our number one mission is to get your property retuned to you ASAP.
The single best action we can take is to stay in business... answer the
phone... bring comfort to our supporters... act as a call center for media
and donations to fight this obvious wrong... and work to cover our legal
expenses.

Our current business model is to auction the donated Liberty Dollars
on eBay... as we continue to fight for your right to use gold and silver
any way you chose and keep the ideals that the Liberty Dollar
exemplifies alive.

Announcing the "Arrest Dollar" to help fund our legal defense. Check
it out at http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/arrestdollar/images.htm. The
new "Arrest" Hallmark has just been created to mark special items
issued during these difficult and very limited times too. In all
likelihood, the Arrest Dollar will only be available between now and
my arrest, as it seems unlikely that I will be doing any hallmarking
after I am arrested.

Appropriately, the Hallmark, features "Handcuffs", and will be stamped
on special items or any Liberty Dollar products you submit for
Hallmarking. As a means to raise funds for our legal defense, the cost
is $10 per Hallmark. Currently, a few donated $20, $10, and $5 Silver
Libertys have been Hallmarked and are available for $30, $20, and $15
respectively plus $6 for handling and shipping... If you wish to beat
eBay before these are auctioned off... please send your order, payable
in money orders or check made out to "Bernard", as we do not have a
company bank account.

PLEASE NOTE: We could be raided again! You could lose whatever you
send to Liberty Numismatics ... but if you don't send anything... I regret
that we will lose the Liberty Dollar and the ideals it represents.
Please give generously and submit whatever you wish to be Hallmarked.
Just remember the mail and Hallmarking takes time... plus it is
Christmas... and like you, I will be with my family too.

Unfortunately, we do not have a company bank account in Evansville. A
money order is the best way to send a donation but checks made out the
"Bernard" still work.

Got those dreaded, depreciating Non-Federal Non-Reserve IOU-Notes? Old
Liberty Dollars in any form are greatly appreciated too... we need
material for eBay. Cash is OK too. All checks and money orders, MUST
be made out to "Bernard", as we have no company bank account. Please
send everything to the old Liberty Dollar address: 225 N. Stockwell
Road. Evansville. IN. 47715.

So do you have a Liberty Dollar to spare for the cause? Certificates,
while not suitable for Hallmarking, are particularly sought after for
our eBay auctions.

Who knows where we go from here? One of the best ideas I heard was for
a Black Sabbath Liberty! As a heavy metal rocker, I could certainly
identify with that idea! Seriously, our country is going in debt at
nearly $1 million US dollars a minute... over $1 billion a day! US
National Debt will hit $10 Trillion in a year! This is a very serious
time for us and our money! You must take action. Either change your
money or lose it.

As for me, I am innocent until proven guilty. I have an unalienable
right of free speech. I refuse to go the showers quietly. Now hear me:
The government fiat money is not worth shit! You either change your
money or lose it. The longer you wait the more you lose. This country,
the world, is headed towards a major monetary crisis. Not since Rome
fell has man faced such an immense event. This collapse will make the
Great Depression look like a cakewalk. We are headed towards a global
hyperinflationary depression. Soon most people will be millionaires in
a soup line... if not in prison. Get out of the soup line! The sooner
you change your money the more you will make or at least preserve. For
your own protection, please take action right now!!! Buy Silver
immediately. Support the Liberty Dollar model with a donation. We need
a survivable monetary system. We need your help. Please donate $10 or
more!

When the Federal Reserve meets on December 11, they are expected to
cut interest rates... and that means more easy money... and another step
towards a global hyperinflationary depression! These people are mad.
This is not going to be just a US problem... When Rome fell, it was the
world, as they knew it... This experience would have make Jimi Hendrix
flinch! This is no purple haze hallucination. It is real and it will
affect you.

On a positive note. I am pleased to receive all your support. Recently
the legendary Robert Clarkson of the Patriot Network has come to our
aid. Interestingly, he too was raided by the same Agent Andy and had
all his seized material returned. Please visit his incredible site at
www.PatriotNetwork.info. And if you really want to get an insight into
the government's war against activists click on COINTELPRO in the left
column and then use code 4143 to access Part 3 and 4 and learn the
truth about the government's "dismantlment" program against
organizations like the Liberty Dollar!

Plus we have received so many comments, we have started a "Comments"
page at the top of the Raid Page. Please check out the latest Comment
by G. Edward Griffin at
http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/legal/raid_commentary.htm.

Please support the Liberty Dollar with a Hallmark and a donation. Sign
up for the Class Action Lawsuit today! Please don't let the government
steal your money and drive the Liberty Dollar out of business.

BIG thanks for all the donations we received!!! Every donation counts!

Bernard von NotHaus
Monetary Architect/Editor

PS: Time to revisit Bernard's Second Law of Money:
"Any government action that purports to prohibit an American citizen
from using a piece of gold or silver (or, for that matter, anything)
in voluntary barter transactions between consulting adults is
preposterous, antagonistic to a free market, and totally without legal
merit."

[coffeeseven]

I never did get signed up for the digital dollars. I don;t see any sign up area on the web page. Did I miss it?

[inertia]

Digg:

http://digg.com/business_finance/Announcing_the_2008_Liberty_Dollar_20_PVBC

I don't know how they're doing it.

[coffeeseven]

Digg:

http://digg.com/business_finance/Announcing_the_2008_Liberty_Dollar_20_PVBC

I don't know how they're doing it.

Because they're not doing anything wrong. It's not against the law or even immoral to create, own and spend them as long as both parties are in agreement.

No one has been arrested or even charged with anything yet the FBI intends to auction off what they have "confiscated". Bernard doesn't want us to use the word theft. I'm having a REAL REAL hard time with that one.

BTW I just got my order of "Arrest Liberties". Gorgeous. They came in protective hard plastic snap cases. I hate to spend them but hey, that's what they're for. 

[inertia]

Bernard doesn't want us to use the word theft. I'm having a REAL REAL hard time with that one.

I think his choice of words has to do with the "Restricted Warehouse Receipt Terms" which read:

... THE UNDERSUGNED WAREHOUSE OFFICIAL CERTIFIES THAT THIS SILVER IS INSURED AGAINST FIRE AND THEFT. ...

If Bernard goes around saying it was theft, people might think he was seeking a claim.

[coffeeseven]

If Bernard goes around saying it was theft, people might think he was seeking a claim.

What would you call it?

[inertia]

Because they're not doing anything wrong. It's not against the law or even immoral to create, own and spend them as long as both parties are in agreement.

What I mean to say was that I was actually marveling over their testicular fortitude to resume fabrication and their continuing tenacity to take orders, not the legality of doing so.  The legality is obviously not in question.  I read the affidavit, and it's crystal clear that no law was broken.  There has been no cease and desist.  BVNH has not been arrested.  I think our government was hoping Liberty Services would just shut their doors after the raid.  Honestly, I thought they would too.  Go Liberty Dollar!

[Friday]

Today's announcement is pretty interesting.  I have a couple of questions:

1) re:

This unique "local hallmark" concept is a direct result of the conference calls I had with the Regional Currency Officers (RCOs), who told me to either mint more Liberty Dollars to meet their merchants' and clients' demands or they would make their own.

Were the NH RCOs in on this?

2) re: the new ability of RCOs to customize their LD's, does this affect the Shire Silver plans at all?  Seems like you could just keep using LD's and stamp a porcupine (or whatever) on them.

Forgot to mention: I like the new changes re: putting MSRP in front of the stamped value, and calling them PVBC's (although that's a horrible acronym).