Liberty Dollar currency

[Michael Fisher]

As you can see if you read all 5 pages of testimonials on their website:

-Nobody ever tells recipients that LDs are not redeemable for $10 in FRNs.

-The majority use LDs without saying anything because people are more likely to accept them.

-Many misrepresent LDs as "the new American dollar."

-Using the LD face up (so "$10" is visible) is more effective because people think it's the equivalent of FRNs.

-Nobody ever gives the full story about LDs OR tells how much they paid for them.

Smite me all you want - it's not going to change the fact that the way LDs are used is fraudulent in my eyes.

[Michael Fisher]

I've been saying it for a long time:  Use real money, not LDs, if you want to work toward liberty in an honest manner.

If you honestly wish to use gold and silver as money, then buy some bullion, optionally wait for the price to appreciate a few percent so you don't lose money on it, figure out what local coinshops will pay for them, and go around telling people that this silver or gold coin is worth $x at the local coin shop if you redeem it right away.  Tell them if they wait, the price may go up or down.  Bring a daily printout of the silver or gold price if it helps and tell them about www.kitco.com to check daily spot prices.

Or we could create a commodity-backed currency that could be based on local, national, or global commodities.

[FTL_Ian]

It's not necessary to explain legal tender status.  A trade is a trade.  Caveat emptor.  When spending LDs, no one has the time, nor is it appropriate to educate people.  Offering a buyback option covers all potential objections, after the fact.  Do you disagree?  If there is a buyback, where's the risk?  If they have a problem with it later on, they can pick up the phone.

I understand your obsession over "real money".  The FRN doesn't come close, the LD does.  Until you create your own currency to compete with the LD instead of complaining about it, you are just blowing hot air.   

[Lloyd Danforth]

Exactly.? I believe that most LD associates silently allow people to think LDs are legal tender.? They know what they're doing is wrong, but the LD propaganda machine overrides their own conscience.

you believe it!
Where is your evidence?

In the plane site DVD

No, evidence would be, actually, observing most LD associates allowing people to think the LD's are legal tender.

I've bought them from 3 individuals whom made no claims and implied nothing.

[KBCraig]

No, evidence would be, actually, observing most LD associates allowing people to think the LD's are legal tender.

I've bought them from 3 individuals whom made no claims and implied nothing.

Tendering something that looks like money as payment of a debt tacitly implies that it is legal tender for payment of that debt. Silently offering the LD, or calling it the "new American dollar" relies on, and takes advantage of, the average American's ignorance. Countering with "caveat emptor" amounts to thumbing your nose at the trust placed in you by your trading partner.

The pages of testimony at norfed make it clear that the overall attitude in dealing with LDs is not one of education or enlightenment about real money. Rather, it's gloating that they snuck one past the suckers.

That's not the way I care to do business.

Kevin

[FTL_Ian]

What are you TALKING about, "suckers"?!  I offer buyback.  What objection can you have with that, KB?  ???

[Michael Fisher]

What are you TALKING about, "suckers"?!? I offer buyback.? What objection can you have with that, KB?? ???

Ian, you know they wouldn't accept it if they knew it was worth $7.

Why don't you tell them the truth?

[KBCraig]

What are you TALKING about, "suckers"?!  I offer buyback.  What objection can you have with that, KB?  ???

When you read the Norfed "testimonials", do you do business in the same way?

If not, then I'm not talking about you. This is one of those "if the shoe fits" situations, and I feel confident that it doesn't fit you, or Lloyd, or most of the others posting here.

Kevin

[Michael Fisher]

Here's a scenario for you:

-You are trying to use a "$10" Liberty Dollar, and I am with you at the time.
-You put it down and say only that you'll buy it back if they want you to.
-Then I tell the recipient that it's only worth around $7 in pure silver.
-After hearing this, they would probably not give you $10 for it.

Question:  Would you be mad at me for telling them the truth and spoiling your transaction?

[Fluff and Stuff]

What are you TALKING about, "suckers"?!? I offer buyback.? What objection can you have with that, KB?? ???

Ian, you know they wouldn't accept it if they knew it was worth $7.

Why would Ian lie and say it is only worth $7?  That is like saying a U.S. $10 bill is really worth a few pennies (the paper it is printed on).

[KBCraig]

Why would Ian lie and say it is only worth $7?  That is like saying a U.S. $10 bill is really worth a few pennies (the paper it is printed on).

A-ha.  So the LD is not "real money", worth its intrinsic value plus manufacturing/handling costs? But is instead worth something else, something non-"real"? Some mysterious added value akin to the FRN that all here agree is fraudulent?

Is the LD "real", or is it something else? If it's "real", it's worth the silver content plus manufacturing costs. If it's worth more than that, it's not "real money".

Interesting argument. I'm not sure you intended to make it.

Kevin

[Fluff and Stuff]

A-ha.? So the LD is not "real money", worth its intrinsic value plus manufacturing/handling costs? But is instead worth something else, something non-"real"? Some mysterious added value akin to the FRN that all here agree is fraudulent?

Is the LD "real", or is it something else? If it's "real", it's worth the silver content plus manufacturing costs. If it's worth more than that, it's not "real money".

I think that both the Liberty Dollar and the FRN are worth what people are willing to pay and use them for.  I've bought LDs for $10 FRN and used LDs for items that cost $10 FRN.

[Lloyd Danforth]

First of all, I've been hearing about Hard metal money for almost 40 years. ?I smuggled Krugerrands, Soveriegns and gold ingots into the US from Canada before Nixon legalized posession of gold.
If any of you think that metal is ever going to replace fiat in this country, you're living in a fantasy world!
I see a possibility that metal could become a means of exchange between Porc's in NH, an advantage which I'm sure you all understand.
But, used universally in NH or the US, not gonna happen!
When I bought my first couple of LD's on the day of the manicurist event, I was told that it contained 1 ounce of pure silver and that the value at that time was about $7.50 USD. ?I was sure then and now that someday they would be worth $10. It was clear that someone had stamped it into an attractive coin. ?I know that cost money.
I later heard that when spot silver held $7.50 for three months the LD's would be assigned a value of $20.....BULLSHIT!
I bought them because they are unique. ?For the most part I have given them away to friends who I knew would appreciate their uniqueness.
If I were going to deal in silver, I would use pre-1964 coin silver or silver bars.
The couple of times I've seen small businesses, like restaurants, accept LD's from people I was with, it was made clear that it was 1 oz. of silver and worth aprox. 7$ something. ?I'm sure none of these LD's made it into the register and none of these businesses are planning to purchase a new register with an extra coin slot, the LD's went into the manager's pocket.

It seems to me the general theme here is that you all maintain the fantasy that metal will become a universal means of exchange, you just differ on what form they will take. ?Again, not gonna happen!
Pushing for the use of metal or barter among Porcs and others in the know is a good idea, though.

[Fluff and Stuff]

It seems to me the general theme here is that you all maintain the fantasy that metal will become a universal means of exchange, you just differ on what form they will take. ?Again, not gonna happen!
Pushing for the use of metal or barter among Porcs and others in the know is a good idea, though.

It's much bigger than just porcs.  Heck, around 2 dozen companies except LDs in one small section of NH.  At least one company even gives a discount to anyone that uses them.  In Austion, TX, tons of companies except them and that number is growing.
http://www.austinlibertymerchants.org/ShowMerchants.php

I think it is easy to see a day when 100s or maybe even 1000s of companies across NH except the LD.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Gee.