Liberty Dollar currency

[KBCraig]

I'm with you, Mike.

Kevin

[AlanM]

As far as I am aware, nobody is forcing anyone to accept LDs. The exchange is a free market exchange, voluntary on both sides. Isn't that what freedom is about?

[FTL_Ian]

LR6,

I know how you feel.  It took me a while to come to an understanding of all this as well.

LD Associate:  "Hello, Mr. Cashier!  You can go to the coin shop down the street right now and buy an ounce of silver for about $7.75, but I think you should give me $10 for this ounce of silver because it says '$10' on it!"

You can't go down and buy an ounce of silver at that price!  You have to BULK BUY the stuff to get it that cheap.  Plus the cost of minting, and the other costs of bringing the currency to market, equals $10.  There's no scam.  I hope you someday see that.

[JonM]

Repeat after me: currency is not an investment.  It is wrong to treat it as such.  Currency is merely a convenient means by which to barter services for goods.

We had this discussion over on the other forums oh so long ago.

[FTL_Ian]

I'd buy them too, if I was up there.

[mvpel]

The "spot price" of silver that you see in the newspaper is usually the price of a large ingot - hundreds of ounces - in New York City.

The cheapest price I've seen for silver bullion is at AlderGold.com - their American Eagle "ONE DOLLAR" legal tender one-ounce silver is $8.52 at the moment.

That's the real scam, if you ask me - putting a $50 face value on $450 worth of gold like the US Mint does.

[Michael Fisher]

The "spot price" of silver that you see in the newspaper is usually the price of a large ingot - hundreds of ounces - in New York City.

The cheapest price I've seen for silver bullion is at AlderGold.com - their American Eagle "ONE DOLLAR" legal tender one-ounce silver is $8.52 at the moment.

That's the real scam, if you ask me - putting a $50 face value on $450 worth of gold like the US Mint does.

Try www.cheapergold.com next time.?

http://apmex.com/shop/buy/Silver_Bars.asp?orderid=0

Silver Rounds
1 oz (.999) Fine Silver Rounds

Buy Price:? $7.02
Sell Price:  $7.60

Price Breaks:
1 - 99 = $7.60 ea.  
100 - 499 = $7.55 ea?
500 or more = $7.45 ea

[Michael Fisher]

Mike, how many do you have?? I'll buy them from you.

I have dozens of assorted 1-ounce silver rounds.  Half are A-Marks.  It's the exact same thing as a liberty dollar is made out of.

Do you still want to buy them for $10 each now that you know "$10" isn't printed on them like on an LD?  If so, then I'm selling them ALL with free shipping. 

[Michael Fisher]

LR6,

I know how you feel.? It took me a while to come to an understanding of all this as well.

LD Associate:? "Hello, Mr. Cashier!? You can go to the coin shop down the street right now and buy an ounce of silver for about $7.75, but I think you should give me $10 for this ounce of silver because it says '$10' on it!"

You can't go down and buy an ounce of silver at that price!? You have to BULK BUY the stuff to get it that cheap.? Plus the cost of minting, and the other costs of bringing the currency to market, equals $10.? There's no scam.? I hope you someday see that.

I've understood the liberty dollar for a very long time, and I assure you that selling an ounce of typical, non-rare, precirculated silver for 43% over spot price is a scam.

[Michael Fisher]

As far as I am aware, nobody is forcing anyone to accept LDs. The exchange is a free market exchange, voluntary on both sides. Isn't that what freedom is about?

Liberty is about the right to self-government.  That means you absolutely never allow yourself to commit fraud against anyone, not even to the smallest degree.  To be free, we must create our own moral compass, and follow it always, even if it points in the opposite direction of the every other human being on Earth.  If you believe something is wrong, then never do it.  That's deontology.

[AlanM]

As far as I am aware, nobody is forcing anyone to accept LDs. The exchange is a free market exchange, voluntary on both sides. Isn't that what freedom is about?

Liberty is about the right to self-government.? That means you absolutely never allow yourself to commit fraud against anyone, not even to the smallest degree.? To be free, we must create our own moral compass, and follow it always, even if it points in the opposite direction of the every other human being on Earth.? If you believe something is wrong, then never do it.? That's deontology.

Money is a means of exchange, nothing more. Intrinsic value has nothing to do with it. Some Polynesians used stones as a means of exchange. If two or more people agree to use sticks as a means of exchange, placing a value of one hour's labor on a 6" stick, then who are you to call it fraud? The LD is exchangeable for FRNs. There is no fraud. It doesn't matter what the price of silver is at the present time. There is no fraud.

[Russell Kanning]

Silver is shiny

[JonM]

Not if you let it tarnish!

[Michael Fisher]

Money is a means of exchange, nothing more. Intrinsic value has nothing to do with it. Some Polynesians used stones as a means of exchange. If two or more people agree to use sticks as a means of exchange, placing a value of one hour's labor on a 6" stick, then who are you to call it fraud? The LD is exchangeable for FRNs. There is no fraud. It doesn't matter what the price of silver is at the present time. There is no fraud.

If any informed person could easily buy the stick at any local stick shop for half an hour of labor, but the stick said "worth one hour of labor" on it, and you got some poor ignorant schmuck to pay you one hour of labor for it, that would be fraud in my eyes.

To me, and I'm sure to most people, fraud is intentionally being dishonest or withholding the truth for personal gain.

An LD is not worth $10.  It's not even worth $8, and we know that because we're informed.

I never trusted the LD from day one because they practice the Hard Sell rampantly on their website.  The testimonials of those who use LDs show that EVEN THEY feel like they've somehow done something wrong when using an LD, but they override that feeling with LD propaganda like, "...but I know I'm actually helping Freedom!"

Sure, a few LD associates may exchange LDs for FRNs, but this is not a common practice.  They have every incentive to use LDs, but no incentive to take them back, especially on a larger scale.  Anyone who holds on to LDs or takes back more LDs than they exchange would go out of business very quickly.  An LD associate's only incentive is to use LDs and get a hold of some more directly from the mint for a discount so they can use them for a profit.

In effect, an LD associate is an financial extension of the mint, not a medium for currency exchange, not unless they charge exchange fees to stay in business like all other legitimate currency exchange businesses.  Then, LD recipients would have to pay unexpected fees to convert it back into USD.  Of course, even if we try to circulate gold and silver bullion as money, we're going to run into the problem of unexpected exchange fees.

Where fiat currency laws exist, bad money drives out good money.  That's why no currency-related system we try will work until ALL fiat currency laws cease to exist in this country.   Sorry, but that's my final answer. 

[Michael Fisher]

That's Gresham's Law.