Liberty Dollar currency

[FTL_Ian]

I understand that, Tracy, but the LD has had several years of history at this point, and I agree that the dual pricing method would be a great way to introduce a competing currency.  Why shouldn't there be competing currencies?  There are today, and always will be.  For instance, coupons can be considered private currencies.  Subway stamps can be considered a private currency.  They have value with both the issuer and the consumer.

[tracysaboe]

Because, you don't get it, dude.  The LD is more valuable than an ounce of silver because it has been minted as currency!  I'm not lying either.

Again. You can't just "MINT" a currency. Money has to have history behind it. Money is worth something today, because it was worth something yesterday, because it was worth something the day before, because it was worth something the day before that, because it was worth something the day before that, . . . . . . . . . . Because it was a commodity people started using as a means to exchange other commodities because it held it's value, and didn't rot with time, etc.

Money doesn't become money, just because somebody stamped something on it, and tells you it's currency. It really doesn't matter whether a private mint or government mint stamped the fancy words on it or not.

Tracy

[tracysaboe]

I understand that, Tracy, but the LD has had several years of history at this point, and I agree that the dual pricing method would be a great way to introduce a competing currency.  Why shouldn't there be competing currencies?  There are today, and always will be.  For instance, coupons can be considered private currencies.  Subway stamps can be considered a private currency.  They have value with both the issuer and the consumer.

Subway stamps became a private currency. Amazon Gift cards are quickly becoming one as well. Air-line miles were for awhile. These are things that before they became money already had commodity value. That value was real stuff, like FOOD, Books, or airplain flights.

The only REAL value the LD has is the real stuff linked to it. In this case, that's only the the value of the Silver.  You can't just say something is suddently "MONEY" and now it's all of a sudden worth another $2.50 more then the commodity that backs that money. Subway stamps were never bought and sold at a "premium" because they suddently became "money."  Neither did Air-lines and either will Amazon gift cards.

The liberty dollar has hardly the history that the value of a sandwhich, books, or airplain flights have. The only historical value the liberty dollar has is the value of the Silver (or Gold in some cases)) 2 years, is hardly a "history" as far as the developement of money is concerned. Especially when it's comming out of the blue and nobody else uses then except for radical libertarians and constitutionalists. That's hardly enough of a following to be considered money.

The fact is there isn't enough of a history for people to be confident that it'll be worth what it says.

With subways stamps their was.

Tracy

[Michael Fisher]

The only REAL value the LD has is the real stuff linked to it. In this case, that's only the the value of the Silver.? You can't just say something is suddently "MONEY" and now it's all of a sudden worth another $2.50 more then the commodity that backs that money.

Exactly.

[Michael Fisher]

From my observations, the only reason most people accept LDs is because they probably think the "$10" is the same as $10.

Almost no LD associates ever tell recipients what they paid for their LDs or the actual FRN value of the pure silver.  Those facts would undermine the LD.

A Liberty Dollar's "added value" primarily originates from the public's lack of knowledge.

[Michael Fisher]

Ian, Larry Clow (The Wire reporter) even said the LD seems "questionable" before I said a single word about it, so I can tell you right now, positive coverage of the LD is very unlikely.

What a surprise .... a member of the media is not familiar with an alternate currency. I bet he also doesn't know that most of the founding fathers wanted any money to be backed by gold or silver.

Fully backed or partially backed?

[Ron Helwig]

One advantage I don't see mentioned here is that as a currency, the Liberty Dollar is used without being taxed.

If you use a plain silver ounce in trade, the government sees it as a taxable event - your investment has reaped profit. Most likely it is a short term investment, which is taxed at the higher rate.
On the other hand, the Liberty Dollar is officially recognized as a currency, so any trades involving it are not taxable events.

I know a lot of people here would say "I don't care about what the govt won't find out about", but when dealing with regular businesses it does matter.

So, the Liberty Dollar does have more inherent value than a "coin" with an equal amount of the same purity of Silver.

[Caleb]

the Liberty dollar issue wouldn't even be an issue anymore if we could get people used to thinking of paying for things in "ounces" ... then the value of the liberty dollar would be firmly established, regardless of what value is stamped on it in dollars.  Dollars are meaningless, because they're backed by nothing.  10 times zero is still zero.

Caleb

[KBCraig]

On the other hand, the Liberty Dollar is officially recognized as a currency,

??? By whom?

[Michael Fisher]

One advantage I don't see mentioned here is that as a currency, the Liberty Dollar is used without being taxed.

If you use a plain silver ounce in trade, the government sees it as a taxable event - your investment has reaped profit. Most likely it is a short term investment, which is taxed at the higher rate.
On the other hand, the Liberty Dollar is officially recognized as a currency, so any trades involving it are not taxable events.

I know a lot of people here would say "I don't care about what the govt won't find out about", but when dealing with regular businesses it does matter.

So, the Liberty Dollar does have more inherent value than a "coin" with an equal amount of the same purity of Silver.

???

This is not true with regard to the actual silver and gold coins, only the paper currency.? Every trade is a taxable event under any state's sales tax unless specifically exempted.? The actual Liberty Dollar coins do not hold a special status as a "currency" which exempts them from sales taxes in any state that I'm aware of, only the paper representation of the silver.

However, gold and silver sales in general are exempt from sales taxes in most states anyways.

As New Hampshire has no sales tax, this "added value" does not exist and the LD is only worth the underlying silver.? As most states exempt gold and silver from sales taxes, this theoretical "added value" also does not exist in those states.

[Lloyd Danforth]

I have to buy some more. Apparently, either I have given all of mine away or hidden some on myself.. All I have are some fives.

[Russell Kanning]

Kat wants to sell a couple.

[Ron Helwig]

This is not true with regard to the actual silver and gold coins, only the paper currency.  Every trade is a taxable event under any state's sales tax unless specifically exempted.  The actual Liberty Dollar coins do not hold a special status as a "currency" which exempts them from sales taxes in any state that I'm aware of, only the paper representation of the silver.

However, gold and silver sales in general are exempt from sales taxes in most states anyways.

As New Hampshire has no sales tax, this "added value" does not exist and the LD is only worth the underlying silver.  As most states exempt gold and silver from sales taxes, this theoretical "added value" also does not exist in those states.

Actually, it does hold true with regard to the actual silver and gold. If you buy an A-Mark, it is an investment. If you buy a Silver Liberty, it is a currency. Been there done that. Gold and silver round sales might be exempt in some states as "sales", but are then taxed at a higher rate as "investments" (again, unless they are currency, like the Liberty Dollar, the Canadian Maple Leaf, and the U.S. Eagles).

Sure, there may be less of a benefit here in NH (don't forget the feds though - they want their cut), but as a currency it works everywhere.

The simple fact is that until a whole lot of people start using silver as money, you will not be able to sucessfully use silver by weight as money. The Liberty Dollar gets around that by making it easy to accept in relation to the current standard (U.S. Dollar) - something the plain rounds cannot do. Once a sufficient amount of trading and selling is done in silver, the linking to the dollar can go away, but not until then.

[Dave Ridley]

So when are we going to transfer this thread to the "endless debate" area?

[Michael Fisher]

Actually, it does hold true with regard to the actual silver and gold. If you buy an A-Mark, it is an investment. If you buy a Silver Liberty, it is a currency. Been there done that. Gold and silver round sales might be exempt in some states as "sales", but are then taxed at a higher rate as "investments" (again, unless they are currency, like the Liberty Dollar, the Canadian Maple Leaf, and the U.S. Eagles).

Not as far as I'm aware.  The actual silver LD round is the raw value, not a representation of debt.  A nontaxable currency is defined by the government as a representation of debt.  Thus, sales taxes only do not apply to the paper LDs when they apply at all.  Most states aren't going to tax it either way.

The only bullion represented as an "investment" in some states are bars.  This is the only bullion other than digital bullion that the Fed will tax as far as I know.  Coins are usually considered a physical currency and most states do not tax them.

This is very confusing to most people, but we're talking about tax law here, and it's not uniform, nor is it supposed to make sense. 

The Liberty Dollar gets around that by making it easy to accept in relation to the current standard (U.S. Dollar) - something the plain rounds cannot do. Once a sufficient amount of trading and selling is done in silver, the linking to the dollar can go away, but not until then.

The LD only gets around that by fooling people into believing it's equivalent to USD.  The way most LDs are used proves this - nobody is ever told how much they were purchased for or the USD value of the actual silver.

What are LD associates going to do with the >50% scam when the LD organization creates $20 LDs that are worth less than $10?

Then will you still have the heart to try to use them?