Living Free On A Shoestring

[dalebert]

For example, if I leave my clothes out in the open, they become damp overnight.

Now that's weird. That doesn't sound like a condensation problem. That requires a differential temperature like between the cold outside a window and the warmth inside the window. For some reason, it does sound like it's just really humid which is odd. Or maybe water is just dripping on your clothes from the condensation.

[srqrebel]

For example, if I leave my clothes out in the open, they become damp overnight.

Now that's weird. That doesn't sound like a condensation problem. That requires a differential temperature like between the cold outside a window and the warmth inside the window. For some reason, it does sound like it's just really humid which is odd. Or maybe water is just dripping on your clothes from the condensation.

Yeah... on second thought, the damp clothes are probably from dripping water.  Condensation does accumulate on any cold surface inside there, though.  On these cold mornings, there is a layer of frost on all the cold surfaces, and frozen water droplets on the plastic I use to keep things dry.

The sleeping bag must be water resistant, as there are usually frozen water droplets on it, but inside the bag it remains nice and dry

[Weird Ernie]

Good work Menno. You'll have to let us know how it is once it's below zero. Make sure you keep your laptop warm. I've lived in NH for all but 1 of my 26 years and I still love the winters. I love the peace that the cold and the snow brings. I've often had this fantasy of building a small cabin with my own hands and being completely self-sufficient somewhere up in the Yukon, miles away from anyone or anything. That wouldn't work too well with my goal of supporting myslef as a working musician though. Maybe retirement.

-W.E.

[srqrebel]

Good to see you made it to the forum, WE.  Welcome!

I'm curious just how important it is to keep the laptop warm.  Someone else had actually warned me about that, too.  It was part of the reason I got the Styrofoam cooler, but it ended up being too large to fit into the cooler.  So far, it has been fully exposed to the near-zero temps, and it seems just fine.  The screen fogs up when I take it inside somewhere, but it's short lived.

[srqrebel]

Hey Lloyd -- just so you know, I tried to keep your karma in its place, but opposing forces have prevailed.  Guess you'll just have to let go of that coveted title!

[dalebert]

Hey Lloyd -- just so you know, I tried to keep your karma in its place, but opposing forces have prevailed.  Guess you'll just have to let go of that coveted title!

I'm sorry but I just have a hard time seeing Lloyd as the anti-christ. He's just a cuddly ole curmudgeon.

[jshmukatelli]

Menno,

This is long-winded, my apologies in advance.

Lots of great ideas here, but perhaps you should first try the low-tech solution I learned while arctic warfare "instructoring" over the years.  Most of your moisture is coming from your breath (respiration) and generally goes up.  Some comes from your body (perspiration) and also goes up, through your bag believe it or not.  I advise you to do this (since you already seem to have an insulating layer below you).  Bear with me as it's a simple concept but difficult to explain using just words.

-With your present setup, you CANNOT beat the condensation (you'll run into power issues or "stuff" problems (like kilos of puffy, moldy rice sitting around after three nights!)).  But you CAN work WITH the condensation, and bend it to your will.

-using lines or wires or whatever you can, rig a simple sheet of plastic sheeting (inexpensive) lengthwise so it covers your whole sleeping bag and pad with something like 6" extra on all sides.  Like a tight, plastic roof OVER your sleeping bag, not ON it.  It should be sloped to one side (45 degrees or so usually worked for me) so that the low side still clears your sleeping gear by 8" or so (this is so you don't bump it if as you move around and get yourself wet).

-the moisture from your breath / body will go up and hit the cold plastic barrier and condense.  The water condensate will the cling to the plastic and run down the underside to the lower edge, and there it will form droplets and DRIP down into [paste your solution here!].  We used a simple little trench cut down into the snow, for you I suggest about seven feet of plastic rain gutter with end caps for only a few ducats at Hamshaw's (they're still local!).  It has a flat bottom and should stay put.

-an added benefit is that any moisture that does get around to condense on the inside of your truck cap won't drip on you, it'll hit the top of the plastic (and run down into the gutter).

-in the AM you just get up and dump out the gutter, fold up the plastic and stow it.

-no doubt you'll have to tweak it to get it to work best for you configuration, like adjusting the angle and such.  Also, don't poke holes in it to hang it, get some of those plastic coated metal clips (also at Hamshaw's)

Needless to say, I also advise you to get a GoreTex bivvy sack for you sleeping bag (moisture goes out through it, water drops can't get back into it, adds about 10-15 degrees to your cold rating), use a mummy style bag (so if you shift around at night all your warm air doesn't slough out through a huge opening), wear nothing more than lightweight polypropylene long underwear in the bag (naked is actually warmer), and get a sleeping bag liner (washable, adds more temp rating to your bag but most importantly keeps your actual bag cleaner because it WILL get nasty from daily use).

Again, sorry this is so long, but hey, it's my thang!  Few people have true respect for the cold until they must spend days (or weeks or even months) in it with no respite.  I respect you.

Joe

[Lloyd Danforth]

Never apologize for such a helpful post. Don't they use this method for condensing drinking water from the night air in arid regions?   

[srqrebel]

-using lines or wires or whatever you can, rig a simple sheet of plastic sheeting (inexpensive) lengthwise so it covers your whole sleeping bag and pad with something like 6" extra on all sides.  Like a tight, plastic roof OVER your sleeping bag, not ON it.  It should be sloped to one side (45 degrees or so usually worked for me) so that the low side still clears your sleeping gear by 8" or so (this is so you don't bump it if as you move around and get yourself wet).

I'm picturing myself sleeping under a sloped hotbed.

That sounds like a really good method, it will be the first one I try.  I definitely need to do something, as the condensation was worse last night than ever.  Apparently, the temp was just barely above freezing -- perfect for condensation.

Needless to say, I also advise you to get a GoreTex bivvy sack for you sleeping bag (moisture goes out through it, water drops can't get back into it, adds about 10-15 degrees to your cold rating)

Thank you, I will do that.  This is very good to know -- something that adds significantly to the cold rating without having to spend $500 on a 40-below rated down sleeping bag!

I've been doing fine so far, but the really frigid weather hasn't even begun.

wear nothing more than lightweight polypropylene long underwear in the bag (naked is actually warmer)

Very good to know, thank you!

Guess now I'll have to add locks to the inside of the topper door, for sure!

get a sleeping bag liner (washable, adds more temp rating to your bag but most importantly keeps your actual bag cleaner because it WILL get nasty from daily use)

You're right!  Thank you for pointing this out.  I've been washing the sleeping bag itself with my regular laundry, but a liner would be way less bulky, thus take less quarters at the laundromat.

Again, sorry this is so long, but hey, it's my thang!  Few people have true respect for the cold until they must spend days (or weeks or even months) in it with no respite.  I respect you.

Joe

Actually, this has been an unusually informative post -- thank you so much!

[srqrebel]

Hey Lloyd -- just so you know, I tried to keep your karma in its place, but opposing forces have prevailed.  Guess you'll just have to let go of that coveted title!

I'm sorry but I just have a hard time seeing Lloyd as the anti-christ. He's just a cuddly ole curmudgeon.

True

[elf]

(naked is actually warmer)

Now sqlrebel will have to learn to get dressed while still in the mummy bag! 
Neat trick. 

[dalebert]

Now sqlrebel will have to learn to get dressed while still in the mummy bag! 

If women can take their bras off without taking off their shirts, I'm sure he can learn this trick.

[Recumbent ReCycler]

Hehe, I remember getting into my sleeping bag wearing just underwear in freezing temperatures.  In the morning I would get partly dressed before getting out of my sleeping bag because it was usually colder when I woke up than when I went to sleep.  We were told to sleep with our rifles inside our sleeping bags so that nobody could steal them while we slept, but it would take a while for the metal parts to warm up.  I think a Gore-Tex bivvy sack would be a lot better than a body bag.  Unfortunately they weren't available for issue while I was in the Army.

[dalebert]

We were told to sleep with our rifles inside our sleeping bags so that nobody could steal them while we slept, but it would take a while for the metal parts to warm up.

Fire it a few times?

[Lloyd Danforth]

What was that movie where the steelworker chick took off her bra from under her sweatshirt?  That was great scene.