Ridley "Store-and-Ignore Disaster Supply Box" - would you buy one?

[yonder]

For kits, I like the disposable bic lighters.  The short-length non-adjustable lighters seem to be more rugged.  Obviously their capacity is relatively low but I do like them.

I do have a number of butane lighters.  Butane is butane, but as for lighters I keep an unbranded but rugged Chinese-made lighter in my go-bag as well as a Colibri.  The Colibri's are expensive but very wind resistant.

sportsmansguide.com, cheaperthandirt.com, and Walmart often offer much lower priced refillable butane lighters that are wind resistant like the Colibri, in a more rugged case, and for much less $$$ than the Colibri.  Something like that would definitely be worth checking out.

One of my other favorite sites with good rugged gear for long term kits is http://countycomm.com/

[Dave Ridley]

is butane certainly the best fluid to put in a lighter?

[yonder]

is butane certainly the best fluid to put in a lighter?

I think so.

"Lighter fluid" aka the stuff that you put in a zippo stinks really badly and evaporates out of the lighter within 2 or 3 days tops.  It's also a lot bulkier to store.

Butane comes in a pressurized can, which can be relatively small in size.  Once you put the butane into the lighter, it tends to stay there.  It doesn't really have an objectionable aroma (if it did, cigar aficionados wouldn't love those colibri lighters) and it performs well in hot or cold weather.  The lack of odor is important for a kit because you don't want everything else in the kit to stink like a zippo lighter.  The ability of a butane lighter to "hold its charge" is also important if for nothing else the efficiency of your consumables.

[Bald Eagle]

Clearly I haven't used any of these, but something along these lines would probably be good.
The thing to do is buy one, use it a lot in the wind, and for heating things for a long time.

http://www.bugstores.com/shop/WindproofLighters.php

[yonder]

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=210580

Has a compass and little LED light built into it.  I've not used the one in this link.

[penguins4me]

is butane certainly the best fluid to put in a lighter?

I think so.

"Lighter fluid" aka the stuff that you put in a zippo stinks really badly and evaporates out of the lighter within 2 or 3 days tops.  It's also a lot bulkier to store.

The downside to butane is that lighters requiring it ONLY burn butane. Producing, capturing, storing, and pressurizing a specific gas is much harder than simply pouring any flammable liquid which will climb a wick into a Zippo.

Lighter fluid may "smell" when a lighter is lit, but so do most things which are lit on fire, be they candles or cancer sticks. A decently-made fluid lighter will keep a charge of fluid for two weeks or so, though if the lighter sees heavy use (mine doesn't), it will of course require a refill sooner.

Obviously, I believe lighter fluid is the better choice, though I see no reason why cheap, disposable butane lighters couldn't also be included, since they essentially store well for a looooong time.

Lastly, a word of advice: do not try to fill a Zippo with butane. Trust me on this.

[KBCraig]

Lastly, a word of advice: do not try to fill a Zippo with butane. Trust me on this.

LMAO... that must fall into "DAMHIKT" territory.

As you noted, Zippos, despite their limitations, are happy with any flammable liquid that can be sucked up a wick and ignited by a steel-on-flint spark. Generations of military veterans can attest to refueling their Zippos using gasoline, diesel, avgas, kerosene, various grades of JP, etc.

As a Sterno alternative, I would suggest something I learned while earning a Cub Scout badge eons ago: tightly rolled corrugated cardboard stuffed into a tuna tin, and soaked in melted paraffin wax. It makes a great home-school project. Check the chips and dips aisle of your local supermarket: Fritos brand canned dips come in perfectly sized cans for this project, with the added bonus of fitted plastic lids to stave off the elements during storage.

Another home-school or craft version involves melting paraffin in a double-boiler, then mixing in sawdust to the point of saturation. Pour/force the mixture into egg cartons; after they cool and solidify, cut out the individual segments and wrap them tightly. Light them with a match, and they are great fire starters.

[Dave Ridley]

Does butane have an indefinite shelf life?  i can't tell from googling butane shelf life

[yonder]

Does butane have an indefinite shelf life?  i can't tell from googling butane shelf life

The shelf life isn't documented but should be considered a number of years, like any pressurized can (spray paint, etc.).  You have to be careful not to store it in too hot a plate.  There are warnings on the cans about storing at temperatures above 120 degrees.  But I've rediscovered old cans that were half-used and turned up 5+ years later, still good as new.

[Bald Eagle]

Dave - lighters of the type I'm talking about are available for $4-5 at Blue Canoe.

I was looking for crystalline ascorbic acid, and almost all of it is manufactured in China and imported.
I searched "ascorbic acid suppliers" and came up with 2 in the US
http://www.alibaba.com/company/10121666.html
http://www.alibaba.com/company/11355625.html
I'm sure there are more, and it would be great to find suppliers for that, essential amino acids, and other hard-to-come-by items in New Hampshire.
A 100% made-in-New Hampshire kit would be unlikely, but awesome!

[kola]

As a pipe smoker I use zippos and love them.

Zippo has a new fuel out that is odorless but even before it came out I mixed it with 151 Rum. It burns good and smells good. You could use any high alcohol content liquor like Everclear or other "grain alcohols"

Kola

[porcupine kate]

Dada let me know if you are going to include a sewing kit. 
Most of the premade kits have terrible quality thread. 
Let me know if you need needles.
Kate

[Bald Eagle]

Let "the market" decide.

Academic discussion about the contents of the kit is good, but after 15 years in the ivory towers, and armchair top-down plan is likely to leave you short in time of need.  Build a few kits and test them.  Bring a few to PorCfest and have someone try to use nothing but the supplies in the kit for as long as is practical.

It's really the only way to know what items you really need, what items you're missing, what items are of poor quality or have other unanticipated attributes.  I've been on plenty of camping and boating trips, and sometimes it's the simplest things that we take for granted that we are most likely to overlook.

If the kit is for home use, why not have a porcupine activity where a few people get together and field-test the kit over several days with the electricity and water turned off, etc.  Most things are only a disaster because you're caught off guard and haven't planned for them.  Field testing shoves the inescapable real-world problems in your face and gives you no choice but to deal with them.  Having a pen and paper handy while dealing with adversity is the best way to assemble a kit for future problems.

If something moderately bad happens that puts people in a bind, the only things you really need are warmth, water, and a system for waste disposal.
Of course, the giant, sucking parasite of govt will require that people still pay rent and such, utilities will be due if you're on the grid, etc.  So a store of money would be good to have.

So you don't need much to just sit tight.
Candles/flashlights obviously are helpful and psychologically reassuring
Extra DRY clothing stored in plastic to make sure you STAY warm
Dual fuel camp stove in case main home stove gets cut off/destroyed

First aid kit?  First aid INSTRUCTIONS?
Waterproof rain gear?

And most important is the simple preparation people can do if there is an approaching hurricane/tornado/despotic govt   
     It's easy to fill bottles, pots, and the bathtub with potable water right from the tap
     Is there a plan for what to do with the frozen stuff in the freezer when the power will be out for a week?
     Do you have simple, cheap staple foods to keep you from becoming a zombie from hunger?  25 and 50 lb bags of rice and beans go a LONG way, and are super inexpensive insurance.  Make sure they're stored in rodent-proof containers like a metal trash can with overlapping lid that is bungeed down.  Pasta is dirt cheap too.
     Do you have enough creature comforts like toothpase, TP, whatever to get you through more than a week/month?  Just because the disaster is "over," doesn't mean that the local stores will have been restocked after the shelves have been emptied.
Do you have a shotgun to make sure the horde of locusts doesn't strip you of all your planning?
     No f'ing birdshot - 00 buck and slugs
     A rifle would be useful for holding back an approaching mob of raiders.

People with children have special needs that need to be well thought out and planned for.

If you're going to be on the move at all
Spare car keys
Spare house keys
5 gal stabilized gas
maps
hardcopies of important phone numbers, email addresses, directions to people's houses (including alternate routes)
Tire plug kit
Manual (pedal) tire pump
*****  A whole 'nother prep kit for the car in case you get stranded  *****


Think of specific things that could go wrong and what you'd need to deal with those situations.

Maybe it's a hurricane or storm.
Window breaks?  Rain leaking in?  Power out?  Water out?
tarps, plastic sheets, staple gun, nails, hammer, battery backup devices (flashlights, radio), fuel backup devices (camp stove, candles, heaters, lamps), water storage, dry waterproofed sleeping bags and clothes, etc.
Maybe a tree falls on a LP line or on the house
Got wrenches/Vice-Grips to turn off gas?  Some other way to crimp off or stopper up a broken natural gas line?  A true disaster would be to get quickly driven out of your perfectly well-stocked-for-a-disaster home because it's filled with gas.
Got a fire extinguisher in the house?
Extra medication for people who need it?  Insulin?  Syringes?  Heart meds?
Extra glasses so you're not suddenly stricken blind?

A lot of this stuff should be put into a nearly indestructible container with easy-to-grab handles and stored somewhere Immediately ACCESSIBLE.  "where's the store-&-ignore kit?  I can't find it - it's pitch black at 3am and the power's out and it's in the attic with ice-cold wind & rain pouring in...."


But whatever gets assembled - pull it back apart and USE it to make sure it's not just a good idea, but that it's actually a good kit.

[Dave Ridley]

Just an update to let you know I haven't forgotten about this and am still slowly gathering the right items at the right price to have a few of these ready.

but I've decided the word "kit" is misleading

This thing isn't designed to put everything you need in one spot or be a portable cure-all.  Designing such a thing is beyond my current capabilities and is not consistent with the indefinite shelf life requirement.  This is simply going to be 30 or 40 pounds worth of stuff that will surely be in short supply during a disaster lasting more than a week, which will be good for barter use, and which won't go bad in the meantime.   Unlike a typical kit (which you can get from someone else and which will contain semi-perishable items) it won't really depreciate in value over the years.

So I think I will call it something more like the "Store-and-Ignore Disaster Outlaster" or the "Store and Ignore Disaster Supply"

I do however like the idea of letting the market (the individual buyer) decide to some extent what goes in it.

[Dave Ridley]

guys where do you think is the best place to get big pressure cookers that could be used as the storage device? (bald eagle's idea)

where is the best place to get 15-20 gallon resealable water resistant buckets?