9-11 was NOT an inside job

[coffeeseven]

Don't waste too much time with the structural engineering and materials analysis.  Those are important issues.  I want you to take a close look at the sloppy investigation by FEMA, ASCE, and NIST.  Every time there is any private investigation with evidence showing governmental wrong doing, evidence is lost, covered up, witnesses are threatened or disappear.  The government's investigations involved conflicts of interest in spades, and all were directed at proving the official story.

I have yet to meet anyone who looked into this case who actually believes that Building 7 was not demolished.  Buildings 1 and 2 are tougher issues, because the fires were pretty ferocious at first.

The problem is that the Official Explanation advocates are destroying evidence ASAP (like the wreckage from WTC) and planting obvious evidence--like the "wreckage" photo from Popular Mechanics which obviously includes lots of fake wreckage.  This is where the stupidity/sheep accusation comes in.  Ten seconds of observation are enough to obviate the fraud of these photos and simulations.

One barely has to think about it: how does a steel I-beam get torn out and thrown from a building, ripped from the end joints, then come out looking brand new without a dent in it--or even any welding or holes from the end joints?  The message? "Only stupid sheeple need buy into this.  If you are using your brain, you will see yet another sloppy cover up.  If you expound the official story like a true believer, that tells intelligent people that you are not."

Well said.

[Sheep Fuzzy Wool]

quote[SunCruz Casinos turns over documents in terrorist probe
TAMPA, Fla. - SunCruz Casinos has turned over photographs and other documents to FBI investigators after employees said they recognized some of the men suspected in the terrorist attacks as customers.
Michael Hlavsa, chairman of the gambling cruise company, said Wednesday two or three men linked to the Sept. 11 hijackings may have been customers on a ship that sailed from Madeira Beach on Florida's gulf coast.
9/26/01 By VICKIE CHACHERE Associated Press Writer and Florida Times-Union]enquote

The Mohamed Atta (pardon my spelling if it is incorrect) was seen on this gambling boat.

Jack Abramoff bought Sun Cruz according to articles.


Then of course this must be a guilt by asscociation type thingy:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/24/AR2006032401919.html

Pardon appearing ADD and off topic, remember all the black voters in 2000 who could not vote in Florida because someone made a mistake, opps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChoicePoint#Florida_voter_file_contract
Private data mining company.  Hank Asher.

Everything we say, write, is being stored somewhere for some smuck to make a dollar off of fear and guilt. 

[MaineShark]

Don't waste too much time with the structural engineering and materials analysis.  Those are important issues.  I want you to take a close look at the sloppy investigation by FEMA, ASCE, and NIST.  Every time there is any private investigation with evidence showing governmental wrong doing, evidence is lost, covered up, witnesses are threatened or disappear.  The government's investigations involved conflicts of interest in spades, and all were directed at proving the official story.

I have yet to meet anyone who looked into this case who actually believes that Building 7 was not demolished.  Buildings 1 and 2 are tougher issues, because the fires were pretty ferocious at first.

The problem is that the Official Explanation advocates are destroying evidence ASAP (like the wreckage from WTC) and planting obvious evidence--like the "wreckage" photo from Popular Mechanics which obviously includes lots of fake wreckage.  This is where the stupidity/sheep accusation comes in.  Ten seconds of observation are enough to obviate the fraud of these photos and simulations.

One barely has to think about it: how does a steel I-beam get torn out and thrown from a building, ripped from the end joints, then come out looking brand new without a dent in it--or even any welding or holes from the end joints?  The message? "Only stupid sheeple need buy into this.  If you are using your brain, you will see yet another sloppy cover up.  If you expound the official story like a true believer, that tells intelligent people that you are not."

Something is amiss with the official explanation.  Clearly, that means that the planes were dummies, the buildings were brought down with explosives, and the Pentagon was hit by a missile.

There can be no other reason why the government would do something sneaky, other than those specific things.

In fact, every time the government is caught doing something sneaky, it means that they really blew up a building with demolitions charges and are blaming Arabs for it.  Never anything else.

Ye gods, this is what passes for "intelligent" in your mind?  Something sneaky happens, so that means that there's only one possible excuse, and examining the evidence to find out if there might be others is a "waste of time"?  What sense does that make?

Intelligent people don't call examining evidence "wasting your time."

I've challenged the conspiracy nuts many times to come up with any credible reason why demolitions charges would be used.  To date, no one has ever managed  to do so.

Joe

[coffeeseven]

I've challenged the conspiracy nuts many times to come up with any credible reason why demolitions charges would be used.  To date, no one has ever managed  to do so.

Joe

To bring the buildings down into their own footprint minimizes the damage to adjacent buildings. Very neat and tidy. No major collateral damage to the surrounding buildings. Follow the money to see who gained off of the demolition of the three buildings. As I recall there was a unprecedented increase in put options for 9/11/01, and a big insurance policy taken out by the building owners shortly before 9/11.

Also follow the resultant increased authority over the American people. If it is just a symptom why was the Patriot Act penned years before 2001 and passed without even one member of congress reading it?

Calling people nuts and comparing planes crashing into buildings to a steamroller crushing my noggin is hardly compelling.

[MaineShark]

I've challenged the conspiracy nuts many times to come up with any credible reason why demolitions charges would be used.  To date, no one has ever managed  to do so.

To bring the buildings down into their own footprint minimizes the damage to adjacent buildings. Very neat and tidy. No major collateral damage to the surrounding buildings. Follow the money to see who gained off of the demolition of the three buildings. As I recall there was a unprecedented increase in put options for 9/11/01, and a big insurance policy taken out by the building owners shortly before 9/11.

The buildings fell straight as a result of physics.  No lateral force vector was going to compare to the vertical gravity vector.  Orders of magnitude difference in strength.  Once the structure failed, it was going down in a nearly-vertical manner.

Try again.  Remember, a credible reason.  Dropping it nearly on its footprint - certainly within the "bathtub" area, which would have to be demolished anyway - was a forgone conclusion in either scenario.

Also follow the resultant increased authority over the American people. If it is just a symptom why was the Patriot Act penned years before 2001 and passed without even one member of congress reading it?

What does that have to do with demolitions charges?  Brainwashing some terrorists into flying planes into the buildings would achieve that result.

Calling people nuts and comparing planes crashing into buildings to a steamroller crushing my noggin is hardly compelling.

Displaying ignorance of basic physics while calling people stupid (etc.) is not compelling.

Joe

[coffeeseven]

I know when I'm beat. You, Mr. Maineshark are of a superior intellect and I step aside on this thread to let you shine your opinions upon all, without interference from my obviously inferior nutfoggery.

Hey Kola lets go finish that jimbo. 

[MaineShark]

I know when I'm beat. You, Mr. Maineshark are of a superior intellect and I step aside on this thread to let you shine your opinions upon all, without interference from my obviously inferior nutfoggery.

Hey Kola lets go finish that jimbo. 

And folks wonder why I think "Truthers" are typically nothing but immature punks, for the most part.  Call others all manner of names, accuse them of heinous things, and when you can't answer basic questions about your claims, just act hurt and skulk away, pretending to be the victim.

My son is a year old, and he displays more maturity.

Joe

[kola]

I've challenged the conspiracy nuts many times to come up with any credible reason why demolitions charges would be used.  To date, no one has ever managed  to do so.

Joe

Hey Joe, have you ever attended any of the NH 911 programs that Jaqboy has posted?



Coffeeseven..Ok I'm game!

KOla

[MaineShark]

Hey Joe, have you ever attended any of the NH 911 programs that Jaqboy has posted?

Haven't I already said that I would, if they could manage to get anyone competent to discuss the issue to attend?

I'm not wasting hours of my time to go and listen to paranoid ramblings.  I can read those right here at my computer, and like most people, I read much faster than folks talk, so I can do it in less time.

And I can read the arguments that are going to be made by the presenters at those programs, since they have already made them.  What purpose would attending do?  I can challenge them via email, and give them the benefit of time to actually compose a response.  Ambushing them at a conference would be immature and counter-productive.

Joe

[kola]

I see.   


So, according to your logic? everyone who questions the 911 "official" story and/or  discusses other possibilities is a non-credible wacko?

I think your mind is closed to anything other than what you already believe.

Kola

[kola]

btw Kat, could you please put my Karma at -1000? It will save Joe the extra work. Thanks. Kola

[Russell Kanning]

so if they didn't use charges ... how did the terrorists bring down the buildings?

[ReverendRyan]

This is so sickeningly typical of your average conspiracy theorist. When are you guys going to just admit it's a religion?

Moving the goalposts, logical fallacies and dishonest tactics left and right, and once one of their arguments is knocked down, they trudge ahead unaffected and just throw out more straw man questions.

Imagine this: all the ninelevenists get together and name their own group to do a definitive study on the whole thing. This group gets access to all records, materials, et cetera. Now if this committee, their own guys, were to come back and say they've realized it was the work of a handful of pissed off muslims, would the ninelevenists believe them? Of course not. "More investigations!"

There's a reason I refuse to refer to you guys as "truthers." You're only interest is in your own little theory being proven true. If the truth conflicts with your own beliefs, you want nothing to do with it.

And that, my friend, right or wrong, makes you no different than psychic surgery patients, young earth creationists, or anyone who still gives a damn about Uri Gellar. It has nothing to do with truth or honesty. You believe it because it makes you feel good, makes you feel special to be "the enlightened" among your fellow humans.

Speaking of which, nobody really even answered if the evil cabal you postulate consists of human beings or lizard men from space. You guys don't even agree on that point, it's a religious schism I guess.

[Sheep Fuzzy Wool]

This is so sickeningly typical of your average conspiracy theorist. When are you guys going to just admit it's a religion?

Moving the goalposts, logical fallacies and dishonest tactics left and right, and once one of their arguments is knocked down, they trudge ahead unaffected and just throw out more straw man questions.

Imagine this: all the ninelevenists get together and name their own group to do a definitive study on the whole thing. This group gets access to all records, materials, et cetera. Now if this committee, their own guys, were to come back and say they've realized it was the work of a handful of pissed off muslims, would the ninelevenists believe them? Of course not. "More investigations!"

There's a reason I refuse to refer to you guys as "truthers." You're only interest is in your own little theory being proven true. If the truth conflicts with your own beliefs, you want nothing to do with it.

And that, my friend, right or wrong, makes you no different than psychic surgery patients, young earth creationists, or anyone who still gives a damn about Uri Gellar. It has nothing to do with truth or honesty. You believe it because it makes you feel good, makes you feel special to be "the enlightened" among your fellow humans.

Speaking of which, nobody really even answered if the evil cabal you postulate consists of human beings or lizard men from space. You guys don't even agree on that point, it's a religious schism I guess.

If it were found by a small group/committee of nineelevenists truthers signing on penalty of perjury with the use of documents, and all evidence and it was found as you say above in your post, "a handful of pissed off muslims, would the ninelevenists believe them? Of course not. "More investigations!"

Hypothetically, using your logic, would think the group would insist not to errode everyone else's rights just in case this type of thing would, hypothetically, happen again?

Looks a bit like the cult religion of the war on terror and everyone is suspect to be a terrorist because a handful of guys you mention above.
The most worrisome labeling is lumping everyone together and that is exactly what the administration has allowed to happen because of a hypothetical committee that released information allowing for all/everyone to remain suspect, except those who "lose," information through acts of God and other perils or those who stand on a stage and profess loudly that the terroriist took your rights away in every speech since paid for by fear.

Data  mining for "terrorists and criminal fugitives." in the name of security has only caused pain and suffering to all those who are innocent, including people who do not fit the label of what type of person as you mention above.

For this quote from above that you have written, "There's a reason I refuse to refer to you guys as "truthers." You're only interest is in your own little theory being proven true. If the truth conflicts with your own beliefs, you want nothing to do with it."

Who is benefiting from a very little theory?  A big marketing campaign to make everyone submit to constant ID and slavery and penalty and abuse.

No one needs to study how it happened to know what is happening is a scam.

[alohamonkey]

Imagine this: all the ninelevenists get together and name their own group to do a definitive study on the whole thing. This group gets access to all records, materials, et cetera. Now if this committee, their own guys, were to come back and say they've realized it was the work of a handful of pissed off muslims, would the ninelevenists believe them? Of course not. "More investigations!"

I would be content with an impartial investigation.  One that doesn't try to include Henry Kissinger:
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/13/kissinger.resigns/

Lee Hamilton, recently named one of "America's Best Leaders" for 2007 by U.S. News and World Report, was a member of the 9/11 Commission and even he has issues with how the Commission was run. 
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=20521

In his words, "we were set up to fail":
http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780307276636&view=excerpt

If a truly impartial group were given power and authority to investigate this incident properly and they determined that it was the work of 19 Middle Eastern hijackers . . . I would agree.  Red flags flash in my head when the White House objects to an independent investigation into our nation's greatest tragedy.