9-11 was NOT an inside job

[ReverendRyan]

*13 people hijacked 5 planes. Either that's 2.6 hijackers per plane or 3.25 hijackers per plane if one of the five planes hijacked itself. 

19/4=4.75, that's 5 on 3 and 4 on 1. Quit pulling numbers out your ass.

[ReverendRyan]

And for that matter...

If people want to believe the 6' 6" diabetic cave dweller masterminded a box cutter hijacking with 19 13 terrorists*, and that jet fuel can bring down 2 fortified skyscrapers (third fell from laughter I guess) and that a man about to die calls his mother via cell phone from inside the plane and identifies himself to her by his first and last name then be my guest.

How is height relevant?

I know of one American politician who masterminded a hell of a lot more death and destruction without the benefit of working legs. So diabetes is more incapacitating than polio?

Box cutters cut people. People bleed. Blood scares people. And before then, a hijacking usually just meant a layover in Havana. So yes, it was entirely plausible to hijack a plane with box cutters.

They were office buildings, not military installations. "Fortified" in the same way the Browns' house was, I guess?

How many people did his mother know named Mark? Case in point: I have a sister and a step-sister with the same first name. When they call a family member, guess how they identify themselves?

[MaineShark]

The 9-11 Truth movement is about convincing ordinary people that the mainstream story isn't true. Most ordinary people tend to place more trust in the State and its thugs than they do in other ordinary people. So, having an ex–State thug saying the same as the 9-11 Truthers lends them more credibility in front of the masses.

No, if they were interested in truth, or simply pointing out inconsistencies in the "official" story, that's what they would do.

Instead, they are perpetuating a specific "alternate" story that is no more valid than the official one.  More to the point, they are perpetuating a story which was crafted by the government in order to support the goals of keeping airline passengers disarmed.

As I've said before, the "Truthers" are working for the government.  Some willingly.  Some simply due to extraordinary levels of gullibility.

How is height relevant?

I know of one American politician who masterminded a hell of a lot more death and destruction without the benefit of working legs. So diabetes is more incapacitating than polio?

Box cutters cut people. People bleed. Blood scares people. And before then, a hijacking usually just meant a layover in Havana. So yes, it was entirely plausible to hijack a plane with box cutters.

They were office buildings, not military installations. "Fortified" in the same way the Browns' house was, I guess?

How many people did his mother know named Mark? Case in point: I have a sister and a step-sister with the same first name. When they call a family member, guess how they identify themselves?

Stop being sensible, dammit!  You're harshing on their buzz!

Joe

[coffeeseven]

*13 people hijacked 5 planes. Either that's 2.6 hijackers per plane or 3.25 hijackers per plane if one of the five planes hijacked itself. 

19/4=4.75, that's 5 on 3 and 4 on 1. Quit pulling numbers out your ass.

Ya know you're right. I was quoting 5 planes but WTC 7 fell from laughter. I was also wrong about something else too:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers.html pulled from
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0406/S00195.htm

National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States

The muscle hijackers 'picked by bin Ladin':

Satam al Suqami, Wail and Waleed al Shehri (two brothers) Both Alive, Abdul Aziz al Omari Alive, Fayez Banihammad (from the UAE), Ahmed al Ghamdi, Hamza al Ghamdi, Mohand al Shehri Alive, Saeed al Ghamdi Alive, Ahmad al Haznawi, Ahmed al Nami Alive, Majed Moqed, and Salem al Hazmi Alive (the brother of Nawaf al Hazmi).

There are 7 alive not 6. We're back to 3 hijackers per plane. That's one to drive and two to waive boxcutters around. Unless you'd like to adjust that number too. Hey with all of the ridiculum you've posted so far it may not be out of the question that one plane hijacked itself. 

[Faber]

LOL@Coffeeseven

" HELLO MOM??? THIS IS MARK BINGHAM, YOUR SON."

ROFLAO
Kola

Heh, this might be a testament to how I felt about my relationship with my mom before we split, but if I were to leave a message on her voicemail or call her at work, I would say it like that.

[ReverendRyan]

Wail and Waleed al Shehri (two brothers) Both Alive

Waleed and Wail were both mistakenly reported to have been found alive and well, by the BBC later in 2001. They were initially reported in error by a Saudi newspaper editor as the sons of Ahmed Alshehri, a senior Saudi diplomat stationed in Bombay, India. On September 16, 2001, the diplomat Ahmed Alshehri denied that he was the father of the two hijackers. Wail claims he did attend Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach, Florida - but was the victim of mistaken identity, since he used that training to secure his current position with a Moroccan airline company. Saudi Arabia has confirmed his story, and suggested he was the victim of identity theft. Muhammad Ali Al-Shihri, the hijacker al-Shehri brothers' true father, was identified prior to September 17, 2001, and told Arab News that he hadn't heard from his sons in ten months prior to September 2001. An ABC News story in March 2002 repeated this, and during a report entitled "A Saudi Apology" for Dateline NBC on Aug 25 2002, NBC's reporter John Hockenberry traveled to 'Asir, where he interviewed the third brother, Salah, who agreed that his two brothers were dead and claimed they had been "brainwashed".

Furthermore another article explains that the pilot who lives in Casablanca was named Walid al-Shri (not Waleed M. al-Shehri) and that much of the BBC information regarding "alive" hijackers was incorrect according to the same sources used by BBC.

Abdul Aziz al Omari Alive

Controversy over al-Omari's identity erupted shortly after the attacks. At first, the FBI had named Abdul Rahman al-Omari, a pilot for Saudi Arabian Airlines, as the pilot of Flight 11. It was quickly shown that this person was still alive, and the FBI issued an apology. It was also quickly determined that Mohammed Atta was the pilot among the hijackers. The FBI then named Abdulaziz al-Omari as a hijacker.

A man with the same name as those given by the FBI turned up alive in Saudi Arabia, saying that he had studied at the University of Denver and his passport was stolen there in 1995. The name, origin, birth date, and occupation were released by the FBI, but the picture was not of him. "I couldn't believe it when the FBI put me on their list", he said. "They gave my name and my date of birth, but I am not a suicide bomber. I am here. I am alive. I have no idea how to fly a plane. I had nothing to do with this." This individual was not the same person as the hijacker whose identity was later confirmed by Saudi government interviews with his family, according to the 9/11 Commission Report.

Mohand al Shehri Alive

On September 20, Saudi Arabia's Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal stated: "It was proved that [al-Shehri] had nothing to do with what happened." The Saudi embassy said that al-Shehri is "not dead and had nothing to do with the heinous terror attacks in New York and Washington." However in February of 2002 Saudi Arabia acknowledged for the first time that 15 of the September 11 suicide hijackers were Saudi citizens. Interior Minister Prince Nayef stated, "Previously, Saudi Arabia had said the citizenship of 15 of the 19 hijackers was in doubt despite U.S. insistence they were Saudis. Saudi leaders were shocked to learn 15 of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. "The names that we got confirmed that," Nayef said in an interview. "Their families have been notified."

Saeed al Ghamdi Alive

On 23 September 2001, before the FBI had released the pictures of the hijackers, the BBC and The Daily Telegraph reported that a Saudi Airlines pilot named Saeed al-Ghamdi was furious that a name on the hijacker's list released by the FBI matched his own. CNN also mistakingly showed a picture of the "living" Al-Ghamdi as the hijacker. The man claimed CNN likely got his picture from a Flight Safety flying school in Florida he attended. Der Spiegel later investigated the claims of "living" hijackers by the BBC and discovered them to be cases of mistaken identities.

According to immigration records in the Philippines, someone named Saeed al-Ghamdi visited that country on at least 15 occasions in 2001, entering as a tourist. The last visit ended on August 6. This may have been a different person with the same name, as no other information is available. It is also possible that the same Saeed al-Ghamdi visited the Philippines during this period.

In June of 2005 the Saudi government released a list (see al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula) of 36 wanted (and alive) terrorists, one of whom was Salih Sa'id Al Batih al-Ghamdi. 9/11 conspiracy theorists quickly confused him with the hijacker Saeed al-Ghamdi.

Ahmed al Nami Alive

After the attacks, an employee of Saudi Arabian Airlines named Ahmed al-Nami came forward to say that he feared his identity had been stolen.

Salem al Hazmi Alive

Shortly after the attacks, several sources reported that Salem al-Hazmi, 26, was alive and working at a petrochemical plant in Yanbu, Saudi Arabia. He claimed that his passport had been stolen by a pickpocket in Cairo three years before, and that the pictures and details such as date of birth released to the public by the FBI were his own. He also stated that he had never visited the United States, but volunteered to fly to the U.S. to prove his innocence. On September 19, Al-Sharq Al-Awsat published his photograph alongside Badr Alhazmi's, whom they claimed was the actual hijacker who had stolen his identity.


Maybe once you ninelevenists realize that "research" means "searching for truth and evidence" rather than "reading of the holy texts and holding their tenets above all other facts, science, or other empirical evidence," we can have some meaningful dialogue.

[Wretched1]

Here is a cut and paste argument about Mark Bingham.

Would Bingham have "used his last name in identifying himself to his mother" (Alice Hoglan)? There's no need to speculate, because she's already answered the question: yes. He did do this sometimes. Here's what she said in "The Flight That Fought Back", a Discovery Channel documentary:

Hoglan: I was staying with my brother Vaughan on the morning of September 11th, and, uh, the phone rang.

Bingham (reconstruction): Mom... Mom, this is Mark Bingham.

Hoglan: Once in a while he would say that. He would call up, and he was, he was a young businessman, and used to, used to introduce himself on phone as Mark Bingham, and he was trying to be, uh, strong, and level-headed, and, and strictly business. "Mom, this is Mark Bingham".

Download the clip here (XviD codec required). http://www.911myths.com/Hoglan.avi

No mystery here according to Binghams's mother, then, who's surely better placed to answer this question than anyone else. And now, if these phone calls were faked, it suggests the faker had to know Mark Bingham sometimes spoke that way: how likely is that?

A valid arguement?

[coffeeseven]

Here is a cut and paste argument about Mark Bingham.

Would Bingham have "used his last name in identifying himself to his mother" (Alice Hoglan)? There's no need to speculate, because she's already answered the question: yes. He did do this sometimes. Here's what she said in "The Flight That Fought Back", a Discovery Channel documentary:

Hoglan: I was staying with my brother Vaughan on the morning of September 11th, and, uh, the phone rang.

Bingham (reconstruction): Mom... Mom, this is Mark Bingham.

Hoglan: Once in a while he would say that. He would call up, and he was, he was a young businessman, and used to, used to introduce himself on phone as Mark Bingham, and he was trying to be, uh, strong, and level-headed, and, and strictly business. "Mom, this is Mark Bingham".

Download the clip here (XviD codec required). http://www.911myths.com/Hoglan.avi

No mystery here according to Binghams's mother, then, who's surely better placed to answer this question than anyone else. And now, if these phone calls were faked, it suggests the faker had to know Mark Bingham sometimes spoke that way: how likely is that?

A valid arguement?

I'll admit I only heard the tape once and read the transcript twice. Also if memory serves he asked during the call do you believe this is Mark Bingham?. I'll look around to see if I still have the record.

[kola]

*13 people hijacked 5 planes. Either that's 2.6 hijackers per plane or 3.25 hijackers per plane if one of the five planes hijacked itself. 

19/4=4.75, that's 5 on 3 and 4 on 1. Quit pulling numbers out your ass.

Reverends shouldn't swear.

[MaineShark]

*13 people hijacked 5 planes. Either that's 2.6 hijackers per plane or 3.25 hijackers per plane if one of the five planes hijacked itself. 

19/4=4.75, that's 5 on 3 and 4 on 1. Quit pulling numbers out your ass.

Reverends shouldn't swear.

Why the hell not?

You sure do like telling others how to live their own lives... reminds me a lot of some Feds I've met...

Joe

[kola]

Merry Christmas Joe! 

Kola

[Lloyd Danforth]

 

[coffeeseven]

Merry Christmas Joe! 

Kola

Seconded!

Merry Christmas Brother Kola. Merry Christmas all!!!    

Festive Saturnalia to the Right Reverend Ryan!

[jaqeboy]

Wail and Waleed al Shehri (two brothers) Both Alive

Waleed and Wail were both mistakenly reported to have been found alive and well, by the BBC later in 2001. They were initially reported in error by a Saudi newspaper editor as the sons of Ahmed Alshehri, a senior Saudi diplomat stationed in Bombay, India. ...

...

If you've got the reference handy, would you mind attributing the quoted material so others can go read it? Thanks.

[jaqeboy]

The 9-11 Truth movement is about convincing ordinary people that the mainstream story isn't true. Most ordinary people tend to place more trust in the State and its thugs than they do in other ordinary people. So, having an ex–State thug saying the same as the 9-11 Truthers lends them more credibility in front of the masses.

No, if they were interested in truth, or simply pointing out inconsistencies in the "official" story, that's what they would do.

Instead, they are perpetuating a specific "alternate" story that is no more valid than the official one.  More to the point, they are perpetuating a story which was crafted by the government in order to support the goals of keeping airline passengers disarmed. [emphasis added]

What's your reference for this plan? What agency? Who is behind this? please let us know more - this could be a real breakthrough! I'm surprised to hear it, though, since most I have met in the movement say that they are in favor of armed pilots and they seem to agree with you on that.

I have found what J'raxis says to be true within the 911 Truth movement. The active campaigns seem to be for having a real and independent (of the Bush administration) investigation, such as the petition campaign in NYC for a referendum to establish an independent investigative commission in the city.

As I've said before, the "Truthers" are working for the government.  Some willingly.  Some simply due to extraordinary levels of gullibility.

Would you mind naming names of the ones working for the govt or pointing us to a list online? This would be helpful for those who are seeking the truth to know which ones are plants, if you do know. Surely you don't mean every member of every local group, do you? For example, is Les Jameison of NYC 911 Truth working for the government? I would like to know now rather than be disappointed in him by finding that out later on. I've met and had breakfast with Richard Gage, the founder of Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth, and he sure didn't seem to be working for the government, but I know those types can be sneaky.