Shire Silver Design Contest!

[ReverendRyan]

This for is a draft, but good enough for now. Download it at:

www.freewebs.com/ryanm207/sssdesigncontest.doc

-or-

www.freewebs.com/ryanm207/sssdesigncontest.pdf

Shire Silver Syndicate
Design Contest
Rules/Requirements/Requests

[/b]


This is a contest to create the design for upcoming Shire Silver medallions. We are planning on eventually issuing in 4 denominations, each in both round and rectangular form, and each with both a listed suggested FRN value reverse and a weight only version reverse. That means we may go with as many as 24 designs! The denominations are:
5 gram (.16 troy ounce) Suggested Trade Value $5
About 7/8 in. round, 3/4 x 1 in. rectangular

10 gram (.32 troy ounce) Suggested Trade Value $10
About 1 1/4 in. round, 1 x 1 1/2 in. rectangular

1/2 troy ounce (15.55g) Suggested Trade Value $15
About 1 1/2 in. round, 1 1/4 x 1 3/4 in. rectangular

1 troy ounce (31.10g) Suggested Trade Value $30
About 2 1/8 in. round, 1 3/4 x 2 1/2 in. rectangular

·   DO assure your design can be rendered as a black and white drawing (no shades of gray or sculpted designs).
·   DO allow space for titles, weight, etc.
·   DO use empty space on the form for explanations, clarification, etc.
·   DO submit any incomplete designs or just any ideas you have.
·   DO submit as many designs as you'd like!
·   DO NOT worry about producing a "final" design, we're looking for ideas here. A rough sketch is just fine.
·   DO NOT use the word "dollar," the "$" sign, or anything that would lead the average person to believe it is US currency.
·   DO NOT use slogans, wording, or symbols found on or similar to government currency or logos.
·   DO NOT use rude or obscene language or images.
·   DO NOT use likenesses or profiles of any living or dead people.

All artwork submitted becomes the property of the Shire Silver group.
We reserve the right to change, alter, or combine designs.

Hand deliver submissions to Ron Helwig or Bill Walker (Kate's Bill),
email to shiresilver@gmail.com or mail to:
Ron Helwig
PO Box 12
Deerfield, NH 03037

All submissions must be received by March 2, 2008.
The winners will be announced and final designs unveiled at PorcFest 2008.
A prize for winners may be announced later, but shouldn't your creation in silver be enough?
Make sure your name is on the back of EVERY submission.

[Russell Kanning]

cool

[Recumbent ReCycler]

I think the suggested trade value should be close to what it costs to make the medallions.

[ReverendRyan]

I think the suggested trade value should be close to what it costs to make the medallions.

It's pretty close to that already, and subject to change.

[Recumbent ReCycler]

I think the suggested trade value should be close to what it costs to make the medallions.

It's pretty close to that already, and subject to change.

If that's the case, you may want to shop around for a minting company with better rates.  I would think that if you make enough of them, it should cost around $1 per medallion above the cost of the silver to mint them.
How many are you thinking about making?

[ReverendRyan]

I think the suggested trade value should be close to what it costs to make the medallions.

It's pretty close to that already, and subject to change.

If that's the case, you may want to shop around for a minting company with better rates.  I would think that if you make enough of them, it should cost around $1 per medallion above the cost of the silver to mint them.
How many are you thinking about making?

First, blanks, plus dies, plus press, plus labor, comes out to significantly more than $1. The only exception would be if we raised enough capital to order 500k to 1 million usd at once, mint them overseas, and pray they don't get seized coming in.

Second, there needs to be a buffer between suggested value and spot price. Imagine investing in dies, producing plenty of specie, and having the dollar tank more so that the suggested value is now below spot. Way to shoot yourself in the foot.

[Ron Helwig]

If that's the case, you may want to shop around for a minting company

Minting companies won't touch this stuff anymore. People have been asking, but since the raid on LD, they are out of that business.

Besides, the WHOLE POINT of Shire Silver is that everyone can and should make their own. Distributed "manufacturing" is the only way to make it survive against the FedGoons onslaught. If you don't have a head, there's no head to cut off (which was always the Achille's Heel of the Liberty Dollar).

We will make a design, and sell dies, and give away instructions as to how to cheaply make your own presses.
We will/do have a site that lists merchants who accept silver in trade (http://shiresilver.com).
We will sell accessories to make the use of it easier (counter mats, wallets, "coin" purses, testers, ...)
We have a site for ongoing discussion and organizing (http://shiresilver.org)

Have a hydraulic car jack? Well then you have the beginnings of a press!
Have a hydraulic wood splitter? Well then you have most of a press!

[Recumbent ReCycler]

How strong of a press would one need?  I have a 12 ton hydraulic press.  How much do the blank discs cost and where would we buy them?  Also, why even peg it to the US dollar?  Why not have it's value based on the value of silver plus the minting costs, or based on whatever someone is willing to exchange for it?  They could be used for bartering or they could be sold as collectible items.

[David]

If that's the case, you may want to shop around for a minting company

Minting companies won't touch this stuff anymore. People have been asking, but since the raid on LD, they are out of that business.

Besides, the WHOLE POINT of Shire Silver is that everyone can and should make their own. Distributed "manufacturing" is the only way to make it survive against the FedGoons onslaught. If you don't have a head, there's no head to cut off (which was always the Achille's Heel of the Liberty Dollar).

We will make a design, and sell dies, and give away instructions as to how to cheaply make your own presses.
We will/do have a site that lists merchants who accept silver in trade (http://shiresilver.com).
We will sell accessories to make the use of it easier (counter mats, wallets, "coin" purses, testers, ...)
We have a site for ongoing discussion and organizing (http://shiresilver.org)

Have a hydraulic car jack? Well then you have the beginnings of a press!
Have a hydraulic wood splitter? Well then you have most of a press!

Brilliant.  Decentralize, decentralize, decentralize. 

Another suggestion, do not include a dollar number on the silver.  Two reasons, 1. it was the most controversial part of the liberty dollar, and 2. you will be changing the figure rather often due to US inflation. 

[Ron Helwig]

Like it says in the instructions, we are planning on making versions WITH and WITHOUT the MSRP. Then we can let the market decide. There will be a one ounce medallion with a face value, a one ounce medallion without a face value, a 10 gram medallion with a face value, a 10 gram medallion without a face value, etc. We are also (like it says in the instructions) planning on circular medallions and credit card (i.e. rectangular) shaped/sized medallions. Round vs rectangular X ounces vs grams X with vs without face = 8 variations. Add in halfsies (half ounce and 5 grams) and you get 16 variations to choose from.

And for those of you who don't like the MSRP, instead of constantly harping on the fact that some people actually want to make a profit from their product, you might want to start making suggestions as to why someone would actually want to use a currency without a MSRP. I don't mean fanciful wishing that the FRN is going to magically vanish overnight and usher in a new silver utopia where money is produced/marketed/shipped/stored for no cost, but actual helpful suggestions as to how to get the average merchant who doesn't give a damn about silver in the first place to want to use it in preference to the FRN.

Remember that money is a product - it is no different than every other product. It has to be created/manufactured, marketed, shipped, stored, and sold. It is the wish/hope that money is somehow "different" that is the cause of most economic misunderstandings.

Now get to work designing the best obverses (front) and reverses you can!

[Bald Eagle]

All of these concerns have been discussed in-depth and at-length already.
They can be discussed at the shire silver website, and hopefully we will have a FAQ so that we don't have to rehash these issues every time someone asks.  RTFM.

The reason there will be so many variations is to empirically determine what's best.  We won't make a centrally-planned, top-down, we-know-better-than-the end-user/consumer/market decision.

We will make as many reasonable variations available and run with whatever works.
Then adapt as the reality of society and the marketplace dictates.

If you want to design and mint your own bits of silver and impose your own personal decisions as self-appointed monetary architect, go for it.  We're trying to find out what works and USE it.  Not decide for everyone else what WE WANT and then overcome unseen difficulties, unintended consequences, and impossible-to-know market forces to try and MAKE it work.

We're going to fire off a money-shotgun and see which pellets penetrate the market the deepest.  Wish us luck and help out, or start a competing business enterprise.  Competition ensures more, better and cheaper.

[Ron Helwig]

How strong of a press would one need?  I have a 12 ton hydraulic press.

You have approximately twelve times as much as you need. My understanding is that one ton is sufficient.

Here is one plan http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/oilpress.html

[John Edward Mercier]

I have one question, and one comment.
If everyone is making their own, how does the market certify silver content?
The comment is...
In parts of the State we've had to deal with Canadian exchange rates that fluctuate. We did this in small single prioprietor businesses because it was worth the market for the hassles. I would think the fluctuation of silver pricing as compared to Can$ would be no different... with more and more businesses slowly making the choice.

[Ron Helwig]

If everyone is making their own, how does the market certify silver content?

That is a very good question, and we are researching answers to it. If anyone has any ideas, please let us know.

I'm pretty sure the Fisch won't work for silver - it works for gold because anything more dense than gold is also more expensive than gold. It is frakking cool though.

As an aside, one of the advantages I see with silver over gold is that if a coin is fake, it wouldn't be as big of a loss. On the other hand, that also means that people won't be willing to pay as much for assaying.

[Puke]

Awesome. I'm on it like shit on stinky fish...with flies.