Fair Tax Forum 16 January

[MTPorcupine3]

I just found out there will be a Granite State Fair Tax forum in Plymouth on Wednesday, 16 January 2008 at 19:00. It's open to all New Hampshire residents. The flyer emphasises the unfairness of the property tax, which is causing many people to lose their homes. I suggest we show up in numbers and discourage the idea of merely shifting the burden to others, e.g., with a sales tax. Let's bring examples of how spending can be reduced! Lower or eliminate property taxes and replace them with...nothing!

http://www.nhfairtax.org/calendar/events_detail.php?cal_id=1175

[ny2nh]

This organization is very much in favor or an income  or sales tax....don't let the name fool you. They pitch people on how unfair the property tax is....but fail to explain to them that an income or sales tax will not eliminate a property tax - just increase spending!!!!

Lowers taxes are the result of lower spending. - Gov. Mel Thomson

[MTPorcupine3]

This organization is very much in favor or an income  or sales tax....don't let the name fool you. They pitch people on how unfair the property tax is....but fail to explain to them that an income or sales tax will not eliminate a property tax - just increase spending!!!!

Lowers taxes are the result of lower spending. - Gov. Mel Thomson

Which is exactly why we should show up and voice the concept of reducing or eliminating spending. This is was the FSP is all about. Showing up, being heard, making a difference!

[ReverendRyan]

"Fair Tax" : Tax Relief :: "Fair Trade" : Free Trade

[MTPorcupine3]

I'm not the only libertarian that's going to be there, am I? Who else is going?
Rich

[Russell Kanning]

Which is exactly why we should show up and voice the concept of reducing or eliminating spending. This is was the FSP is all about. Showing up, being heard, making a difference!

sometimes you make a statement by not showing up

But I think it will be interesting for them to see guys who just want to close down the schools and stop taxing old people

[J’raxis 270145]

Wow, I've seen politicians dodge questions posed to them, but I've never seen a FAQ do that:—
http://www.nhfairtax.org/aboutus/faq.php

If you are in favor of solutions, what are some examples?

The property tax is unjust and unfair. It is up to citizens like you, our legislators and our governor to determine the best solution. Right now, all solutions are off the table because many state leaders resist considering (or even talking about) alternatives to high property taxes, and even take a pledge not to do so.  It is time for the pledge to end and the people to be heard.

Is the coalition in favor of a sales tax/income tax/cigarette tax/other tax?

The Coalition does not take a position for or against any particular revenue source. It is time to adopt a fair tax system that lowers our property taxes.

And more.

[John Edward Mercier]

They might just try voting 'NO' on town budgets...
I see very few young people with children at our town meetings. Mostly 55+ community... so they OK the expenditures that create the tax need.

[MTPorcupine3]

I attended the hearing. They showed DVD that shows how New Hampshire is run on the property tax, how it's driving people out of their homes, how unfair it is, etc. Then the floor was opened for discussion.

I was the first to speak up. "I notice there's no mention of reducing or eliminating spending."

Response: The Coalition does not deal with that issue. They only focus on tax reform so that it's more fair.

Later, the presenter said that we should look at all options, that we should think outside the box.

I spoke up again: "Speaking of thinking outside the box, how about ending government involvement in education?"

A man across the room said, "What did he say?"

The presenter said, "End public education."

The man across the room said, "That would be fine with me!"

This is not what I expected. There was no animosity against my libertarian ideas. Another man said he used to live in New York, Connecticut, and another state where they had high property tax and no sales or income tax. They all created sales and income tax supposedly to relieve property tax payers. Now those states all have sales tax and income tax on top of high property taxes.

I asked the presenter how we can find out where our tax dollars are being spent. He said the State doesn't make it easy to find out. As he spoke, a representative of the Women League of Voters handed me, and others who were interested, a report on taxation and where the money is going.

Well, that sums up the forum and my participation.

[John Edward Mercier]

Sounds like the audience was more open than the speaker.

[Lloyd Danforth]

A fair Tax could only be a Head Tax. In theory, we all get equal access to the, alleged services governments provide.  Family of 1 = X,  Family of 5 = 5X.  Older folks and others not getting any benefit  from the schools still pay some to toward the schools, but, 5X families will carry the brunt of everything.
Another option that would keep taxation separate from  the value of property and income/wealth is 1 X per family or, address.

[John Edward Mercier]

There is no such thing as a fair tax.

[KBCraig]

There is no such thing as a fair tax.

I knew if you stuck around here long enough, I'd have to give you karma.

+1!

[KBCraig]

I asked the presenter how we can find out where our tax dollars are being spent. He said the State doesn't make it easy to find out. As he spoke, a representative of the Women League of Voters handed me, and others who were interested, a report on taxation and where the money is going.

Well, that sums up the forum and my participation.

Thanks for the report, and thanks for pointing out the underlying problem with any "improvements" to the tax collection system: you can't fix it until you stop the spending.

As for where the money is being spent, this item was in today's Union Leader:
To make matters worse, we have no idea where we are on spending. A year ago, the governor proposed monthly spending updates like the monthly revenue updates the state publishes. But one year later, no spending updates have been released and spending is still hidden from the public.

No real debate is possible without a good indication about spending levels.

[J’raxis 270145]

I asked the presenter how we can find out where our tax dollars are being spent. He said the State doesn't make it easy to find out. As he spoke, a representative of the Women League of Voters handed me, and others who were interested, a report on taxation and where the money is going.

Well, that sums up the forum and my participation.

Thanks for the report, and thanks for pointing out the underlying problem with any "improvements" to the tax collection system: you can't fix it until you stop the spending.

As for where the money is being spent, this item was in today's Union Leader:
To make matters worse, we have no idea where we are on spending. A year ago, the governor proposed monthly spending updates like the monthly revenue updates the state publishes. But one year later, no spending updates have been released and spending is still hidden from the public.

No real debate is possible without a good indication about spending levels.

Once the deficit is big enough that the only way to fix it is an income tax, they'll suddenly start releasing these "spending updates."