FOR KOLA-so we stop going OT in other threads.

[Beth221]

because you seem to love the governments attempt to ban amalgam fillings, here is a article funded by the government.

if you knew the government wants to ban it, why did you ask me if the dental profession wanted to ban it? 


Mercury Dental Fillings Do Not Pose Health Risk

Thursday, December 09, 2004
By Jeanie Lerche Davis

Mercury in dental fillings does not cause Alzheimer's disease, multiple sclerosis or other health problems, according to a new review of all current research.

But will this put to rest the concerns many people have?

It's a sensitive issue. Methyl mercury is the type found in fish, and has been found harmful to the brain in large amounts. The EPA advises women to avoid eating mercury-rich fish during pregnancy for that reason.

However, mercury in dental fillings is a different type of chemical compound — an amalgam or blend of copper, silver, and mercury. Dentists have used this blended metal for more than 150 years. But over the years, concerns about mercury fillings have been raised, writes Meryl Karol, PhD, an epidemiologist with the University of Pittsburgh School of Public Health.

Karol chaired the expert panel whose research review was released today. Scientists from the National Institutes of Health's National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research, the Center for Devices and Radiological Health of the FDA, the CDC, and the Public Health Service's chief dental officer, were among those experts.
The Evidence

Only 300 studies published since 1996 had sufficient merit to be included in their report- studies that analyzed mercury in urine samples as a marker for mercury exposure. Methyl mercury from fish is not found in urine samples, explains Karol.

Large population studies, animal toxicity studies, and studies of effects from various levels of mercury exposure were included. Researchers also looked at whether it was biologically possible for mercury vapor from fillings to cause brain disorders and other health problems, she notes.

The panel's conclusion: "Current research is insufficient to attribute various complaints to mercury in dental amalgam," writes Karol. Even those people with allergic reaction to dental amalgam "did not have high levels in their blood," she adds.
Also among the panel's conclusions:

    * The evidence showed that mercury vapor is released from dental work and absorbed in the body. However, about 95 percent of people in the studies had mercury levels at or lower than the level deemed harmful by the WHO.

      The long-term use of nicotine chewing gum (over two years) combined with intense chewing and more than 20 dental amalgam surfaces presents the greatest chance that urine mercury measurements exceed the general population and approach a level seen in people who have occupational exposure to mercury. However, the reports state that adverse health effects for long-term nicotine gum chewers was not evaluated.

    * Bruxism (grinding teeth) and dental amalgam placement and removal appear to have less impact on exposure than the use of nicotine chewing gum.

    * Allergic sensitivity to dental amalgam seems to affect a small percentage of people.

    * Insufficient research has been done to support or refute whether dental amalgam causes antibiotic resistance in the human gut or that it may cause any autoimmune disease including multiple sclerosis.

    * Three studies also failed to support a role of dental amalgam as a factor in the development of Parkinson's disease or Alzheimer's disease.

    * Human studies have failed to support or refute a link between dental amalgam with brain damage in a developing fetus.

    * Both methyl mercury from fish and mercury from dental amalgam have been found in breast milk. Rat studies show that high exposure of mercury vapor among pregnant rats and monkeys induces behavioral abnormalities- but no studies have looked at whether low-level exposures affect brain development.

Although some people undergo chelation therapy to treat their symptoms, animal studies have shown that chelation therapy works to bind and remove mercury from the kidneys, but not from the brain, Karol notes. However, chelation carries a host of problems — possible adverse health problems including headaches, dizziness, nausea, and the loss of essential metals.

Chemicals used in chelation therapy have been harmful to the developing fetus, she adds.
Why Mercury Fillings Are Safe

Mercury amalgam fillings "are 100 percent safe," says Cynthia Trajtenberg, DDS, professor of restorative dentistry and dental biomaterials specialist at the University of Texas Dental Branch at Houston. She was not involved in today's report, but offered her insights.

The safety "all depends on how molecules are combined," she tells WebMD. "Salt is sodium chloride, but if you put pure chloride on your steak you will die. If chloride is combined with sodium, it's safe; it's even a nutritional element. It's the same with mercury. Mercury in dental fillings is combined with silver and copper, and is transformed into a stable metal material that is not easily released into the oral cavity. Therefore, it is not harmful."

One study showed that it would take 300 tooth restorations to create mercury toxicity -"but that's impossible because we only have 32 teeth," she tells WebMD. "Eating salmon and deep sea fish more than twice a week gives more mercury than a single amalgam." Several medical societies including the American Dental Association, the Alzheimer's Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the Multiple Sclerosis Society all agree there is no proven link between silver or amalgam fillings and mercury toxicity that can cause neurological disease, Trajtenberg adds.

"There's a lot of misunderstanding in the medical community about this," she adds. "I get a lot of patients requesting total replacement of fillings because their doctor said they were harmful. It creates a lot of anxiety among patients, but it is not evidence-based. In Germany, there have been cases of metal reactions to fillings. But not usually to amalgam fillings - it's with gold."

It's true that medical symptoms - like headaches, tremors, mood swings - may lead people to suspect mercury toxicity, she says. "But it's not related to small doses from dental restorations. We always want physicians to do further tests with their patients to look for neurological or psychiatric disorders that may cause similar symptoms."

The report was funded by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and coordinated by The Life Sciences Research Office, Inc., a nonprofit, independent research group in Bethesda, Md.
By Jeanie Lerche Davis, reviewed by Brunilda Nazario, MD, http://www.mercurypoisoned.com

[Beth221]

haha, thanks Ivy!

well i felt rude hijacking 2 threads thanks to Kola's help.

[Caleb]

I may be looking at this all wrong, beth, but it seems to me that all your research is saying is that there is insufficient evidence to support or refute the contention that amalgam fillings are harmful. In other words, we can't say they are, we can't say they aren't. If that's the case, wouldn't caution be warranted?

[Beth221]

pretty much.  lol

i just wanted to get the debating out of other threads, so i was baiting Kola.


He was asking for sources for information, and at this time, all i have is the net, so i posted something, I am sure, that is where he is getting the majority of his information from, whereas I am schooled in dental medicine, along with having experience with dealing with mercury, hands on experience.

I highly doubt the government is going to ban amalgam use, here is the USA, good luck in this country.  They will however control, and pass laws enforcing how we dispose of mercury.

Dental studies are interesting in other countries.  For example, in Germany, they drill teeth, with out anything to numb it, so you grin and bare it, imagine having a root canal with out making it numb?  OUTCH. 

Kola was trying to corner me, he knew that its the government who is banning mercury, mostly for Osha hazards, or environmental, rather than dentists, but he tried to get me to shoot myself in the foot. 

I am not challenging his information, like he is me, but i welcome it.  His thirty years of bad dental hygiene does not make him any expert in my field. 

All fillings leak, hence why amalgam needs replacing, I have had fillings in my mouth for 18 years, and they dont need replacing yet.  What is the alternative to fillings??  BRUSH YOUR TEETH, and FLOSS DAILY, actually, more than just once a day. 

Prevention is the key to avoid mercury in your body, along with, DONT eat fish, espcially farm raised FISH.  Coastal waters have higher levels of pollutants in the water than deep sea, and fish farms are located in coastal waters.

Dont drink city water, that might have mercury in it too.

Dont use old style mercury thermometers, well dont break them!

Caleb, Cars can kill, you can be injured by one, ran over, a bridge can collapse on your car while driving, do you not ever get in a car?  Its benefits you to travel, despite risks, same with fillings, If you dont have decay removed, it can lead to an infection, infections in top teeth, over time settle in your brain, infections in your bottom teeth can settle in your hear, cause a brain or heart abscess, which can, and will kill, if left untreated, infection travels in your bloodstream, and that is how it migrates to your heart or brain, I would rather have a mercury safe filling, rather than dying. 

There is no way to avoid mercury, but there is safe ways to work around it.  When I work with larger quantities of liquid mercury, not an amalgam, I wear gloves, apron, eye protection, lab coat, and a respirator.  When I am placing a filling, I wear protection from germs from gross patients. 

Here is an article pertaining to a child who died from an abscess.  (i would take a filling over death, who wouldnt?)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/27/AR2007022702116.html

this did not happen 20 years ago, it happened LAST FEB.... 

This is really a crappy article, ignore the bits about how the child was un-insured, and how mother couldnt afford incurance, and a 80 dollar extraction...  even if she had insurance, state, or universal, good luck finding a Dr, who likes taking a loss when treating state insured folks.   
   

[kola]

this is pretty pathetic.

a girl playing dentist who posts articles that she doesn't even understand...and then we have other folks who are impressed by her "professionalism".

wow.

Kola

[Beth221]

*smiles* *Takes Bows*

I am here all night!

Kola, in case you didnt get it, the article, as smart Caleb said:  "insufficient evidence to support or refute the contention that amalgam fillings are harmful." 

and btw, I am not a girl,  I am not playing dentist, by the way, what is your professional experience in the dental field? AND Dumb ass, I only posted ONE, UNO, article.

have we met in person? 
You know what really pissed me off, Kola, that you questioned me being a free stater, what have you done for the free state? 

and nice way of dodging my questions to you, i answered yours, started a whole new threat, dedicated to you, and you call me pathetic?  What is pathetic, you suggested we start a new thread. 

Wow, back at you babe, and you can SUCK MY LEFT TIT. 

[David]

Careful, your last sentence can be widely viewed as an offer, not an insult, by many of the men here.   

[kola]

what questions do you want answered? btw, you have avoided some of mine too, as your buddy, Angry Joe" kept speaking for you and diverted the topics we were trying to discuss. Thats is the problem with internet debating, a person presents a question/s and then the other member begins tapdancing and poses a new question or presents some other form of diversion to avoid the original question. That is why I most often find it becomes a huge waste of time and energy.

You copy and pasted the first article that came up from a google search yet you do not even understand the contents. Then Ivy is impressed with that...and belives you are a smart chick  because of it.

And yes you are playing dentist. I assume you are an dental assistant and I am sure your dentist has spoken to you about discussing matters with patients that you are not qualified to discuss. (from a legal point of view and from an ethical point of view). It is the same in my profession as my receptionist and my CA (chiro assistant) are not allowed to give advice about using ice/heat, stretches etc to my patients nor are they allowed to say things that would attempt to build a patient-doctor relationship.  (saying "take some advil until you see the chiro is the creation of the doc/pt relationship".) Although you may be knowledgable about dentistry, playing armchair doctor is not in the best interest of a patient. As a Doctor of Chiropractic here in Colorado, my "scope of practice" allows me to speak about anything related to healthcare. This includes vaccines, chemo, meds, nutrution, supps etc. But I never put myself in a position to bond the "patient-doctor relationship".

There are many articles you can copy and paste to support your stance (same as the vaccine issue) but you must read them and understand them and then decide whether they are valid. I can copy and paste articles supporting my stance as well. You made a claim that you know all about both sides of the story but then when I questioned you, you ignored the questions and your posts revealed you where unaware of the other side. The only thing you know is one side, the one side that you have learned form working in a dentists office. Many pro mercury dentists are well aware of who Hal Huggins is, but you have never heard of him thus you avoided my questions about him and his work.

I really think you are a nice girl and are intelligent but it appears you are quite tunnel visioned into the medical model and follow the blind path that academia and the dental profession feed you. You haven't a clue to all the information from dentists, scientists and other professionals who have medical stuides that reveal the other side regarding mercury amalgams and other invasive, unsafe and questiable dental procedures.

Sometime people with a little bit of knowledge are the most dangerous. They mean well but can often put others in danger. if you want to play dentist then pay your dues and become a dentist. If you want to be a good assistant then be the best assistant you can and stay within your scope.

Kola

[Beth221]

then step in line, just got to get by my bodyguard, you may know him, he is big, strong, and named Dan. 

Its the womans version of "suck my nut"

[kola]

that was not a very professional dentists reply...you can do better Beth, i think.

btw Did your dentist ever tell you that the US Food and Drug Administration has never approved mixed dental amalgam fillings?

Kola

[Beth221]

Kola, I take your invitation, lets do this in person, where shall we meet?

What day works best for you???



You were asking for information, and i showed you something, yup i googled it, and it was not the first thing i saw, i liked it because it was in the middle of what we were both saying.

the job of the dental assistant is to make the life of a dentist EASY, i see the patient, i take xrays, i answer questions, I discribe xrays, i teach people how to brush and floss, I go back to the doctor with the history, and my finding, the doctor confirms my pre-diagnoses, and I go back to the patient, and the doc sees the patient, gives her treatment, and leaves the room, I explain what the hell the doc is talkling about, and i write up the chart.

My job is different than yours, and yes I can tell a person to use NSAIDS.  I am sorry, you can not. 

again, when can we meet?? I will bring all my educational information, that shows both sides, and you can look it over, and maybe we can even watch an OSHA safety video on mercury with me. 

question 1 
if you knew the government wants to ban it, why did you ask me if the dental profession wanted to ban it? 
question 2
I am not playing dentist, by the way, what is your professional experience in the dental field?
question 3
have we met in person?
question 4
You know what really pissed me off, Kola, that you questioned me being a free stater, what have you done for the free state?
question 5
and nice way of dodging my questions to you, i answered yours, started a whole new threat, dedicated to you, and you call me pathetic?

Btw, I have helped Ivy with her child, it was not an over the net conversation.  I helped her with a question she had, i helped her with an appliance, I looked at her kids teeth too. 

As for Joe, he just reiterated what I said, in a simpler version so you could understnad it, must be all the mercury vapors coming out your fillings!! 

I think that is excellent that the FDA keeps its nose out of amalgam fillings, but they do approve amalgam caps that need to be mixed in the lab, which is what dentists use. 

Lets do better in person, i want to discuss this outside the net, because I want to meet you, when oh when????  (question number 6) 

[kola]

My job is different than yours, and yes I can tell a person to use NSAIDS.  I am sorry, you can not. 

Re-read my post. I was talking about my CA and receptionist that have no legal right to proscribe NSAIDS. ..jeesh..I hope you read patient charts better than forum posts.

[Beth221]

well, sorry i didnt read every flipping word of your dribble, its getting boring to be, and I am working right now, not on teeth, but other work.  Most of my charts are in the form of xrays, and when i went to BU, I passed my radiology with a 100%, top of my class.   

So, you are the doctor now?

Arnt chiropractors med school drop outs? 

so, when we gonna meet? 

Can we can we please??

and cant you answer my questions??

just answer the one about you questioning me being a free stater, i really want to hear that one.  Then i will stop busting your balls. 

[Beth221]

and i suppose you dont give advice to people, either online, or in person, outside of your work?

[kola]

question 1  
if you knew the government wants to ban it, why did you ask me if the dental profession wanted to ban it?  
==================
I am trying to figure out what you know and what you do not know. I assumed by your answer that you thought it was dentists who were requesting the ban.  Joe answered part of your question for you but kinda side stepped it ( as he usually does)
============================

question 2
I am not playing dentist, by the way, what is your professional experience in the dental field?
=======================================
you were playing dentist by giving recommendations to people and opening a doctor/patient relationship which places you into legality issues because you are not a doc. You are practicing out of your scope of practice. A lay person can give advice and recomendations but once a person "wears a certain hat" that signifies his occupation and he/she must operate at that level. ie I am a licensed DC and will always wear that hat whether I want to or not. If I decide to quit doing adjustments and become a massage therapist I still have to use the title "chiropractor" and I am responsible to adhere to the laws of my state and practice according to the scope. That means I will still have to have intake forms filled out, perform a chiro exam and assessment, shoot radiographs (if needed) make a working dx and refer out if necesaary. I can't just massage a person and be free of other responsibilites. My experience is the same as vaccines, I have studied mercury use in the dental field and have mentored under Dr Huggins. I have been at this for the last 25 years. I have studied the history of dentistry from its beginning and find it ironic that the term "quackery" originated from dentists who used mercury. Many years ago there was a huge battle between the two dental associations over it use, the bigshots won (with AMA's help and Big Pharm) and then they placed a gag order on all dentists restricting any discussion to patients about mercury use. If you didn't follow the orders they yanked the dentists license. But then again Beth, you already know all this because you told me you know both sides of the story, right?  

==================================
question 3
have we met in person?

No, I am ugly and scary looking and I live in Colorado.,,and Kat says we all dress funny out here.

question 4
You know what really pissed me off, Kola, that you questioned me being a free stater, what have you done for the free state?

Here in CO, I am concerned at my county level and want to disengage from the "state". My work is focused on my county and I work with other local folks where we present our concerns with the Sheriff. Sherrifs have a lot of power and can tell the feds to take a hike. I was am also a Copwatch member in Denver where many of us police the police with videocams and keep records of wrongdoings by the goons.  I siad about the freestater thing beacuse I am a bit perplexed that some of you here are very close minded to alternative medicine and have similar stances that are well beyond the times. States like Co, AZ and Cali are much more open to accepting alternative healthcare and heavily questioning modern medicine and that is the main reason I moved from crappy NY to here. The people in NY are still cuaght in the 50's and run to the MD's for every little sniffle and do whatever their docs tell them without question.


question 5
and nice way of dodging my questions to you, i answered yours, started a whole new threat, dedicated to you, and you call me pathetic?

You avoided a shitload of my questions. ie I asked you about Dr Huggins several times and got no answer from you. I have tried to answer your questions but too often I present a question which never got answered and then you reply back with a question or a new topic..and so the diversion continues. I really think it is best to stick with one question and talk it out until both parties are satisfied..or so pissed off they just just the hell with it. ( as you have seen sometimes I just decide to avoid wasting time and energy because I know its headed nowhere anywhere. So I often just say "yes, you are right."  As an old fart I now pick my battles wisely.

hows that?
Kola