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Author Topic: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH  (Read 6647 times)

dalebert

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Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« on: January 16, 2008, 12:22 AM NHFT »

Now that the NH Underground is starting to define itself more clearly, it seems like a good time for this thread.

I'd like to get some dialog going about a basic strategy for affecting a positive shift toward liberty in the culture of NH. I think it was most inspired by the open carry activism that some people have already started doing. For instance, Dave did open carry trash pickup. The idea was to dispel negative impressions people have about those who carry and promote a culture where carrying is a natural thing that doesn't freak people out. However, it got me to thinking about the sorts of things that "radicals" do that freak people out. Perhaps those truly averse to guns will get uncomfortable enough to leave which would be another benefit of that activism.

Some people worry about freaking people out or scaring people off. Is that really a bad thing though? What kind of people are we scaring off? Personally, I'm much more comfortable around the kind of people that much of society would label as radicals* for their take on liberty. Mainstream society seems frighteningly brainwashed to me. If statism is mainstream, I want nothing to do with the mainstream.

Imagine if we actually manage to get enough media attention for the NH Underground (not FSP) that NH starts to get the reputation as the place where those radical* freedom lovers practice their shenanigans. Imagine if our acts of civil disobedience really started to achieve whatever it takes to make them good news, i.e. entertaining, ratings grabbers. Imagine getting on the statewide news regularly. Imagine getting on National news regularly! I like the idea of branding NH as a place for "radicals" and making statists really uneasy about living here.

We don't need to change our message. I just think it's in our best interest not to soft step around the close-minded. Let's be openly and brazenly honest about who we are. Let the statists know- if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Maybe we will never change the hearts of some people but the primary goal is to change the state of NH, right?

Agree? Disagree? Thoughts on how to do this better?

------

* I bought a bumper sticker at NHLF that says something like this (from memory):

Violence abroad: Conservative
Violence at home: Liberal
Violence everywhere: Moderate
Violence nowhere: Radical
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dalebert

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2008, 01:35 AM NHFT »

just be advised.....

If you cause any bad publicity, you will get blamed for everything that has ever gone wrong with the FSP...e.g. zack bass

That's kind of already starting to happen so it seems somewhat unavoidable. Still, I want to continue the goodwill effort. That's why I said I want us to brand NH Underground and not the FSP, which as we all know is just a bus and is a much bigger tent than NH Underground.

I'm not familiar with the Zack Bass story though.
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PowerPenguin

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2008, 02:23 AM NHFT »

Dalebert,

I love you man, but I think you're wrong. Statists are unmoving on the issues *because* they are afraid of change. If we piss them off, they will be turned off for good. IMHO, we should kill them with kindness. We should be controversial, but not scary or rude. See the recent Concord Monitor issue about the whiny bureaucrat being 'forced to put up with' RP supporters. You and I know that's BS, but the man on the street that doesn't know the truth will just have to assume that that bad press is accurate.
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Jim Johnson

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2008, 07:59 AM NHFT »

I agree with you Dale.
Discusions of issues only take place when people are moved to do so.
The discusion of wheather drivers licences are good or bad only took place after an event that showed the nature of the wrong.
Similarly laws are not changed or enacted until an event is provided for people to use as a point of reference.
Not that changing a law is going to make a difference.
How people react to a particular event can not be determined before hand.  I was not ready for peoples violent reaction to Lauren not wanting show her government papers.
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dalebert

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2008, 10:25 AM NHFT »

Statists are unmoving on the issues *because* they are afraid of change. If we piss them off, they will be turned off for good.

That's kind of my point. The hardcore statists aren't going to be receptive to our message. The next best thing is for them to not want to be here. Think about the Massholes. Let's create an image of NH that discourages them from coming here. Let's be that very vocal minority that creates brushfires in people's minds, but a really vocal minority also gives the impression of being larger than it really is. I think this is the case with the religious right.

I don't want to be rude. I don't even want to try be scary. I just know that to some people it will be and that's not such a bad thing. I was thinking mainly of open carry when I think of people getting scared. It's an irrational fear obviously, and I'm fine with irrational people not wanting to live in NH. The gun culture here seems strong enough that if we push it further with very visible open carry, it could take root and propogate. The law is already decent. We should capitalize on it and make it a commonplace thing for people to see an average person carrying in public places, particularly in the city.

The truth is that this is really just the nature of what we do at NH Underground. We're already doing it. I just want to point out a side benefit that we may not have thought of and that perhaps we should think of when we're planning events. I just think we should encourage more of that.

I was surprised at how many people seemed sincerely moved by Lauren's arrest at the Keene Pumpkin Festival. We were able to witness, anecdotally of course, a lot of people's reactions to her story without them knowing who we were. We were just standing nearby and watching and listening. A lot of people are receptive to a strong honest message. There was nothing rude about what she did (though some police might debate that) and she certainly wasn't trying to be scary. They weren't necessarily 100% on Lauren's side about licensing, but the state's treatment of her gave them a twinge that something was badly wrong. Those are the NH people that justify the slogan of "Live Free or Die". It makes me optimistic. The ones who didn't feel a twinge, who took the side of the state 100%, well I say good-riddance.
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dalebert

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2008, 10:36 AM NHFT »

You know, it's hard to express myself with just typed text. I'm not really saying to be more radical or anything like that. That wouldn't even be honest. I guess I'm just trying to put emphasis on the notion of branding, of creating with events and media a very strong association between three things- liberty, NH Underground, and the state of NH. Think of that lizard that spread out it's scales to make itself look bigger to its enemies.  :icon_pirat:
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2008, 10:42 AM NHFT »

I really like focusing on attracting other radical freedom lovers. I think changing people's minds over time is good too.
I also agree that some will always oppose us and they cannot make us timid or determine all of our actions.

the New Hampshire Underground .... ruining it for some since 2004
The New Hampshire Underground .... populating The Shire with friendly freedom loving folks since we can't remember when ... we have been drinkin too much of that Underground Railroad brew at the border.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2008, 11:53 AM NHFT »

Absolutely agreed, Dale.  I have no interest in appeasing statists.

I'm promoting Keene in hopes that it will become the "radical" hub and drive the statists here back to Massachusetts, Vermont, and New York.
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srqrebel

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2008, 12:53 PM NHFT »

...Statists are unmoving on the issues *because* they are afraid of change. If we piss them off, they will be turned off for good. IMHO, we should kill them with kindness. We should be controversial, but not scary or rude...

I have to agree with PowerPenguin on this point.  In order to be successful, one must work in harmony with nature, not resist it.  Since the medium we work with is human individuals, we must work in harmony with human nature to be effective.

If we recognize that many individuals support the Authoritarian Model of Government (AMOG) simply because they fear change, we are then in a position to use this fearful disposition to our advantage.  By effectively articulating what the 'AMOG' actually leads to, we can redirect that fear in a rational direction. 

George Orwell did this with some success through his epic novel, 1984.  Unfortunately, he did not direct his audience toward an escape exit -- and as a result, his depressed readers are left to resign themselves to perpetual slavery.  We have an escape exit to offer -- it is called asserting one's sovereignty by just saying NO to authoritarian government, and transitioning to the Free Market model.
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J’raxis 270145

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2008, 12:56 PM NHFT »

Statists are more likely to use their superior numbers against you (e.g., passing new laws, demanding the government “get tough” enforcing the extant ones) before they just up and leave. How are you going to ensure this sort of backlash doesn’t happen?
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srqrebel

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2008, 12:57 PM NHFT »

...The discusion of wheather drivers licences are good or bad only took place after an event that showed the nature of the wrong...
...How people react to a particular event can not be determined before hand.  I was not ready for peoples violent reaction to Lauren not wanting show her government papers.

When we are controversial, (i.e. Lauren's refusal to beg permission to drive), it is inevitable and completely predictable that some people will have a knee-jerk reaction to it.  Most likely, those are the ones who stand to lose the most from the paradigm shift that Lauren 'threatened' to initiate through her actions -- such as LEOs and their family members, and others who see themselves as benefitting from the Authoritarian Model of Government.  We do not need the support of those individuals.  It only takes a fraction of the population 'just saying NO' to the AMOG to accomplish a mass transition to the Free Market model.  As the transition begins to go mainstream, the rest of the sheeple will follow suit, even as they mutter their protests :)

We do need people on board with us, and coming across as "rude" or "scary" only accomplishes the opposite.  That said, Lauren's peaceful 'just say NO' activism does not appear rude or scary to most people (outsiders) that I have spoken to about it.  The worst I have encountered is a lack of understanding why she did it.  It is important to combine our 'just say NO' activism with a clear articulation of the reasoning behind it, and what we have to offer to our audience.

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dalebert

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2008, 01:35 PM NHFT »

We do need people on board with us, and coming across as "rude" or "scary" only accomplishes the opposite.

Those are words other people have used and I'm simply responding. Don't put words in my mouth. Some have expressed concerns that our actions might scare some people away, and I'm just saying that those people have irrational fears (like peaceful people carrying guns) and it's not such a bad thing if those people avoid NH.

As for statists passing laws, that's kind of beside the point I'm making. I'm talking about the culture of NH, particularly the one that the world sees through the media, even in things like our websites and YouTube videos. We can also affect the culture by our visibility in the densely populated areas. We absolutely shouldn't be rude, but we should be truthful, vocal, and visible. We can show the world a NH as we want it to be and hope that statists will perceive NH as an uphill battle and prefer an easier target.

While I don't personally have confidence in political activity, it seems that those who do could envision a benefit from this as well, even while they may choose to distance themselves from us to some degree or another. I've always said that a culture shift has to precede any sort of political shift.

It's not an overnight thing so we need to be patient. Our visibility is already growing with things like the open carry video and the Ridley Report. We just need to keep the momentum up.
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Fluff and Stuff

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2008, 02:17 PM NHFT »

Why not encourage radicals to move to Keene?  It is not expensive there.  It almost borders MA and VT and is the closest part of NH to NY and CT.  It has a college for radicals and you don't even need a car to get around in Keene.  Besides, you already have radicals with TV and radio shows in Keene.  It seems like the perfect place to do the most radical stuff.

There are lots of near-by colleges in MA and even some in VT to recruit more radicals from.

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yonder

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2008, 02:25 PM NHFT »

I'm promoting Keene in hopes that it will become the "radical" hub and drive the statists here back to Massachusetts, Vermont, and New York.

Your efforts are not in vain.

Through all of your actions, I've found various forums, podcasts, blogs, etc. about all the things going on in New Hampshire.  I'm in North Carolina, no immediate plans to move.  But I planted the seed in my wife's head.  She was totally averse at first, worried mostly about our oldest daughter losing her best friend.  Well the best friend's dad is a hardcore lover of individual liberty, as well.  When his wife was over at the house yesterday I mentioned the Free State Project, how I'm interested in checking out New Hampshire, sounds like something her husband would be really into as well.  My wife didn't roll her eyes even once.  Maybe it is sinking in.

Keene is, of course, one of the towns I would definitely want to check out if I ever managed to convince her to seriously consider relocating.  There is just too much going on there and in the nearby vicinity to be overlooked.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Making Statists REALLY Uncomfortable in NH
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2008, 02:26 PM NHFT »

I like the way you are thinking Dale.
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