Recreational drugs FAR less likely to kill than prescribed drugs!

[srqrebel]

Found this article at Mercola.com:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/1/15/recreational-drugs-far-less-likely-to-kill-you-than-prescribed-drugs.aspx

Here is a brief excerpt:

"While approximately 10,000 per year die from the effects of illegal drugs, an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) reported that an estimated 106,000 hospitalized patients die each year from drugs which, by medical standards, are properly prescribed and properly administered. More than two million suffer serious side effects. [3]

An article in Newsweek [4] put this into perspective. Adverse drug reactions, from "properly" prescribed drugs, are the fourth leading cause of death in the United States. According to this article, only heart disease, cancer, and stroke kill more Americans than drugs prescribed by medical doctors. Reactions to prescription drugs kill more than twice as many Americans as HIV/AIDS or suicide. Fewer die from accidents or diabetes than adverse drug reactions. It is important to point out the limitations of this study. It did not include outpatients, cases of malpractice, or instances where the drugs were not taken as directed."

[dalebert]

[Puke]

Drugs are bad unless they come from Big Pharma.
I always loved the "don't do drugs" posters in school yet all kinds of kids were on Riddilin. (Spelling?)

[NJLiberty]

I used to work for the pharmaceutical company that manufactures Ritalin. There was for a brief time on their internal website, a paper comparing Ritalin to cocaine. They were for all intents and purposes very similar chemically, had very similar effects, and very similar contraindications, yet people prescribe this stuff like it is water. While I was there it was voluntarily treated as a Schedule 5 controlled drug substance, not the sort of thing you would ordinarily give to kids. The worst part is that most of the kids on Ritalin have no business being on it. They don't actually have the symptoms that would indicate its usage.

I feel bad for the children. Its one thing to choose to take a drug on your own, but to have this sort of thing forced on them, especially by people with their own agendas, is just not right.

George

[Luke S]

I used to work for the pharmaceutical company that manufactures Ritalin. There was for a brief time on their internal website, a paper comparing Ritalin to cocaine. They were for all intents and purposes very similar chemically, had very similar effects, and very similar contraindications, yet people prescribe this stuff like it is water. While I was there it was voluntarily treated as a Schedule 5 controlled drug substance, not the sort of thing you would ordinarily give to kids. The worst part is that most of the kids on Ritalin have no business being on it. They don't actually have the symptoms that would indicate its usage.

I feel bad for the children. Its one thing to choose to take a drug on your own, but to have this sort of thing forced on them, especially by people with their own agendas, is just not right.

George

George, you are absolutely correct. Ritalin is essentially cocaine which they give to kids in schools to chemically force them to shut up since so many teachers nowadays have absolutely zero teaching ability. I've even heard of incidents where social workers have said to parents "If you don't give you kid ritalin, I'll have you declared a 'bad parent'", or something disgusting like that. Any social worker who does anything like that should be fired.

In fact, most social workers should be immediately fired, since most of them are nothing but a burden on society at best, and a destructive scourge at worst.

[Caleb]

Have you considered that you are given to sweeping generalizations and knee-jerk reactionism?

[srqrebel]

Have you considered that you are given to sweeping generalizations and knee-jerk reactionism?

I've noticed that.

...but I can't exactly disagree with his latest round of sweeping generalizations ^ 

...and I also can't help but noticing that Luke appears to heartily agree with everything George said in that post... including that there is a major distinction between choosing to take a drug on your own, and having it forced upon you

[J’raxis 270145]

In fact, most social workers should be immediately fired, since most of them are nothing but a burden on society at best, and a destructive scourge at worst.

Better, eliminate the government DSS/DCYF bureaucracies completely. Or, government.

[J’raxis 270145]

Have you considered that you are given to sweeping generalizations and knee-jerk reactionism?

Yeah, but he's right this time.

[David]

In grade school, the principle told my mom not to bring me back unless I was not ritilin.  My mom was mad.     Needless to say, I was never on ritilin, or any other drug. 

[mackler]

An article in Newsweek [4] put this into perspective. Adverse drug reactions, from "properly" prescribed drugs, are the fourth leading cause of death in the United States...It is important to point out the limitations of this study. It did not include outpatients, cases of malpractice, or instances where the drugs were not taken as directed."

Yeah, when you add those factors, you find medicine is the third leading cause of death in the U.S.

[Dylboz]

I am alive today because of modern medicine. I rely on pharmaceuticals to stay that way. I am not going to start making blanket statements about this or that drug, when most of these drugs do have therapeutic value in certain cases. I'm sure Ritalin has helped a lot of people. I'm sure it has hurt quite a few too. When it comes down to it, we are sacks of guts and water with calcium sticks keeping us upright, and fiddling with our chemistry can be helpful or deadly, depending on how it's done. It's the does that makes the poison. Most of the deaths associated with prescriptions could be avoided because proper precautions weren't taken by the health care providers, and patients rarely ask questions (through 3 heart surgeries, I learned to ask a lot of questions, just like when you take your car to the garage, it's not difficult to learn the medicine specific to your case, and you should know all about the various treatment options, and keep asking questions until you fully undertsand what is happening, what they're doing and why). Take responsibility for your own care, and don't let "the experts" push you around. I could have avoided one of my surgeries if I had done a bit more due diligence in researching the procedure in question, so I know form where I speak.

In the case of schools, they use their coercive position to foist that drug on a lot of kids to compensate for very bad teaching, and teachers are protected by unions, etc. All these issues with education, medicine, and child rearing could be fixed by kicking the state out and opening a free market. One of the most insidious yet unrecognized pillars of support for the state is that of INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. Companies use the guns of government to control the market for their products, excluding competition and socializing these costs through taxation. There's no patent on the colonel's 11 herbs and spices, nor Coke's original recipe, but they seem to be able to keep these trade secret relatively secure while retaining majority market shares in highly competitive sectors of the economy. If you could patent those recipes, a bucket of chicken would cost you $50 and Coke would be sending out cease and desist letters, backed by SWAT teams to every corner store that sold RC or Pepsi. These mega-corps would have to simply compete and offer good products at reasonable prices if they couldn't use our own money to pay for an expensive protectionist regime that acts as a price support mechanism and competition crusher. Places with looser IP laws and no drug schedules or prescription requirements have quality drugs available for far less, as well as natural alternatives and new and experimental drugs unavailable in the U.S.

Not sure where this rant is going (must be the drugs talking!), but let's not shit all over modern medicine, let's focus our ire on the bureaucrats who keep it expensive, oppressive, moribund, and protected from innovation and competition through nothing more than violence. IP screws the consumer twice, first by robbing him to pay for government, then again when he has to buy an artificially expensive product from a single producer.

[mackler]

I am alive today because of modern medicine.

Lol.  How do you know that?  Lemme guess, your doctor told you?  Actually you don't know that you'd be dead without drugs&surgery.  The only way to know for sure would be to go back and live your life without the drugs&surgery and see if you die.  Since you can't do that, you really don't know what would have happened otherwise.

I rely on pharmaceuticals to stay that way. I am not going to start making blanket statements about this or that drug, when most of these drugs do have therapeutic value in certain cases. I'm sure Ritalin has helped a lot of people.

I'm not.

I'm sure it has hurt quite a few too. When it comes down to it, we are sacks of guts and water with calcium sticks keeping us upright, and fiddling with our chemistry can be helpful or deadly, depending on how it's done. It's the dose that makes the poison. Most of the deaths associated with prescriptions could be avoided because proper precautions weren't taken by the health care providers,

Apparently you haven't heard the news: drugs are the fourth-leading cause of death even when proper precautions are taken by the drug pushers (whom you euphamistically call "heath care providers").

and patients rarely ask questions (through 3 heart surgeries, I learned to ask a lot of questions, just like when you take your car to the garage, it's not difficult to learn the medicine specific to your case, and you should know all about the various treatment options, and keep asking questions until you fully undertsand what is happening, what they're doing and why).

The problem isn't that patients don't ask enough questions, the problem is that when they do ask questions, they ask the person who is profiting off of selling them the drugs&surgery!  Doctors don't make money by telling you to go exercise and stop eating fast food.  They make money by telling you "If you don't take these drugs you'll die!  If you don't have this surgery you'll die."  Then afterwards they tell you "good thing you had that that surgery or you'd be dead now!"

Take responsibility for your own care, and don't let "the experts" push you around.

...says the guy who believes he'll die without taking drugs? Who told you you'd die without being a drug-user?  Wasn't an "expert" was it?

I could have avoided one of my surgeries if I had done a bit more due diligence in researching the procedure in question, so I know form where I speak.

Actually you could have avoided all your surgeries.  But the surgery salesmen aren't going to tell you that.

Not sure where this rant is going (must be the drugs talking!), but let's not shit all over modern medicine, let's focus our ire on the bureaucrats who keep it expensive, oppressive, moribund, and protected from innovation and competition through nothing more than violence. IP screws the consumer twice, first by robbing him to pay for government, then again when he has to buy an artificially expensive product from a single producer.

Actually, without the IP laws you're railing against, there would be no one getting paid to tell you how important it is that if you don't keep taking your drugs "you'll die! you'll die! you'll die!"  To the extent you get a good feeling from taking your drugs you should thank "the bureaucrats who keep it expensive, oppressive, moribund, and protected from innovation and competition through nothing more than violence."  Otherwise you'd have to select from a much wider variety of actual cures and you wouldn't have your labcoat-wearing priest to assure you that you made the right decision by taking his advice.

As for shitting all over modern medicine, that's exactly what it deserves and I do so every chance I get.  It's the most corrupt, evil institution in history.  At least warmongers admit they're merchants of death. The Federal Reserve may steal your labor, but at least they don't put poisons into your body.  But MDs smile and tell you they're helping you as they profit off of poisoning and dissecting you, and their victims are so brainwashed they say "thank you" when it's over.

[Dylboz]

I was born with severe congenital heart defects, with deformities to the structure of my heart valves and my descending aorta that rendered them very inefficient. This is not about fast food and exercise, in fact vigorous exercise was dangerous and could have resulted in a brain aneurysm due to the increased BP in my head, a result of deformities to my aorta. I started having surgeries at 19, and fortunately, my heart's strength and my general health actually contributed to my quick recovery. But, by the time of my last surgery, I had an enlarged heart over 33% larger than it should have been, with an aorta that was wide open in either direction. I DO know that if I had not had the surgery, I would be dead. My heart was barely functioning, and it's efficiency was near zero. I could not walk up a flight of stairs without total exhaustion, heavy breathing and seeing stars. Sure, I could have avoided them, if dying at 30 seems like an appropriate result. You have NO FUCKING IDEA what I went through, yet you think you can diagnose me from over there? You're ridiculous! I can look at past case histories and see that without surgery, the average life-span for people with my conditions who never have surgery is 30 years. My heart has returned to normal size and function since the surgery, anyone can see it on a ultrasound monitor. I also know that before I started taking the blood pressure meds I'm on, my BP was dangerously high, and threatened the integrity of the repairs made to my heart valves and my descending aorta. It's objective fact, not some feeling that I get from the reassurance they offer me. I can look at the numbers on the monitor. After I started taking them, my BP was down, I felt better and my new heart valves functioned perfectly. Didn't take an expert to figure that out. Do you imagine that some mix of plants would serve me better? Do you realize that's what pharmaceuticals are? Chemicals is chemicals, no matter where they come from. Medicine and surgery saved my life, and I hope that you never wind up facing the kind of issues I had to, and I really, really hope that your kids, should you have any, don't either, since they'd wind up victimized by your ideology. If you get in a terrible car accident or develop a brain tumor, what are you going to do? Walk it off? Take an herbal pill? Shit all over modern medicine all you want, but when you need it to save your life, your tune will change, or you'll just die. Either way, you'll be proven wrong. You're absurd. And the first person on my ignore list on this forum.

[Tom Sawyer]

Hey nobody knows as much as Rasputin...