How's the water?

[Kat Kanning]

Ew!

[citizen_142002]

I live in a rural community. We have our own 800 foot artisian well, so no chemical aditives here.  Keene heavily cholrinates the water.
Some well water in the state, including mine, contains high levels of iron and manganese. We drink spring water because the iron can build up as deposits in your liver.

[Kat Kanning]

-----Original Message-----
From: Kat Dillon [mailto:bookish_lass at yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 3:16 PM
To: Joseph Tonweber
Subject: Question about Keene water supply

Mr. Tonweber,

I read on the Department of Environmental Services
website that various well-water around the state of NH
contains natural fluoride.  Could you tell me
approximately what the concentration, if any, of
natural fluoride is present in the Keene city water
supply?

Thank you very much for your time,
Kat Dillon

---
Hello Kat,
Your question about fluoride was referred to me by Mr. Tonweber.  The
amount of fluoride in Keene's water supplies is less than the normal
detection limit of the analysis -- that is the concentration is reported
as <0.1 mg/L (<0.1 part per million), or "not detected".  A lab never
reports a value as zero because there's always some limit to the method
of analysis.  Makes sense?

Donna

[Michael Fisher]

How's the water in New Hampshire?

Let me check for you...

...

*dies*

[free55]

Most people in NH have well water.

The water quality varies from place to place.  My house has a $3K filter on it because the water smells and stains everything brown.  But the real thing to watch out for is radon in the water.  Since we have lots of granite in NH, there is natutally occuring radon (radioactive) gas.  If it's in the water, it can hurt you as it vaporizes such as in a shower.  Radon filters are expensive.

The state and towns don't test or screen for radon, so you're on your own.  The testing kits are questionnable as to their quality as there are no rules around them.  Unless you're a nuclear scientist, get some advice from a technical person that you may know.

Choose a community that protects its wetlands as these are the recharging engines for ground water wells.  When wetlands go away, you'll find yourself redrilling your well deeper.

If you have a well, you'll most likely want to get flouride pills from the dentist if you have kids to keep their teeth from falling out.  (Of course, if they do, your kids will look like thet're from Maine).

The joke is that if you're robbed in Maine, they steal your teeth.

[Kat Kanning]

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/toxicchemicalsan/a/fluoridepr.htm
Fluoride May Not Prevent Cavities, and Can Cause Health Problems
Wednesday January 24, 2001 --Cavity rates declined in several cities that stopped water fluoridation, new studies report, contradicting American Dental Association (ADA) predictions, according to Fluoride Action Network.

Fluoride added to over 62% of US water supplies is supposed to reduce tooth decay but these six studies from dental journals show it hasn't and, in fact, may have increased the likelihood of rotten choppers.

    * "No increase in caries (cavities) was found in Kuopio (Finland) 3 years after the discontinuation of water fluoridation," according to Caries Research (1). In fact, when Kuopio was compared to a similar never fluoridated Finnish town, cavity rates in both towns either remained the same or decreased six years after fluoridation was stopped in Kuopio.
    * Seven years after fluoridation ended in LaSalud, Cuba, cavities remained low in 6 to 9 year olds, decreased in 10 to 11 year-olds, significantly decreased in 12 to 13 year olds, while caries-free children increased dramatically, reports Caries Research (2).
    * East German scientists report, "following the cessation of water fluoridation in the cities Chemnitz (formerly Karl-Marx-Stadt) and Plauen, a significant fall in caries prevalence was observed," according to Community Dentistry and Oral Epidemiology (3). Additional surveys in the formerly-fluoridated towns of Spremberg and Zittau found. "Caries levels for the 12-year-olds of both towns significantly decreased... following the cessation of water fluoridation."
    * Not only did decay rates remain stable during an 11-month fluoridation break in Durham, NC, between September, 1990, and August, 1991 but dental fluorosis declined in children born during that period, according to the Journal of Dental Research (4)
    * In British Columbia, Canada, "the prevalence of caries decreased over time in the fluoridation-ended community while remaining unchanged in the fluoridated community," reported in Community Dentistry and Oral Epidemiology. (5)
    * In 1973, the Dutch town of Tiel stopped fluoridation. Researchers counted drilled, missing, and filled tooth surfaces (DMFS) of Tiel's 15-year olds, then collected identical data from never-fluoridated Culemborg. DMFS initially increased in Tiel then dipped to 11% of baseline from 1968/69 to 1987/88 while never-fluoridated Culemborg's 15-year-olds had 72% less cavities over the same period, reports Caries Research. (6)

A recently released government report out of Canada (7) shows similar negative results and offers a reason.

Fluoridation was launched in the 1940's when dentists believed fluoride's beneficial effects were achieved internally, through the bloodstream then absorbed inside the teeth. The Canadians report that "this effect is likely to be minor...The evidence for a post-eruptive (topical) effect,... is much stronger."

Therefore, swallowing fluoride doesn't reduce tooth decay but does cause dental fluorosis -- white spotted, yellow or brown stained and sometimes pitted teeth.

According to the ADA's website "Dental decay can be expected to increase if water fluoridation in a community is discontinued for one year or more, even if topical products such as fluoride toothpaste and fluoride rinses are widely used."

"Well, science proves the ADA is wrong about the claimed benefits of water fluoridation and they are wrong about the safety of water fluoridation, too" says lawyer Paul Beeber, President, New York State Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation. "Studies have linked fluoridation chemicals to increased blood lead levels, neurological defects, brittle bones, thyroid cancer and more," says Beeber. "It's time for the media to challenge the science that supports water fluoridation and present the truth to the public. We've made it easy for the media to access the medline abstracts via the links below. No more excuses."

Other US government studies and statistics support the findings of these six studies and the Canadian government report. For example, children in fluoridated-since-1945 Newburgh, New York, have no less tooth decay but significantly more dental fluorosis than children from never-fluoridated Kingston, New York, according to Community Dentistry and Oral Epidemiology June 1999.

    * (1) "Caries trends 1992-1998 in two low-fluoride Finnish towns formerly with and without fluoridation," Caries Research, Nov-Dec 2000 -- Reference
    * (2) "Caries prevalence after cessation of water fluoridation in LaSalud, Cuba," Caries Research Jan-Feb. 2000 -- Reference
    * (3) "Decline of caries prevalence after the cessation of water fluoridation in the former East Germany," Community Dentistry and Oral Epidemiology, October 2000 -- Reference
    * (4)"The effects of a break in water fluoridation on the development of dental caries and fluorosis," Journal of Dental Research, Feb. 2000 -- Reference
    * (5) "Patterns of dental caries following the cessation of water fluoridation," Community Dentistryand Oral Epidemiology, February 2001 -- Reference
    * (6) "Caries experience of 15-year-old children in The Netherlands after discontinuation of water fluoridation," Caries Research, 1993 -- Reference
    * (7)Benefits and Risks of Water Fluoridation -- Reference

[Pat McCotter]

We were in Market Basket the other day. I saw a gallon bottle of water with a picture of a baby on it. Flouridated, purified water.

[Kat Kanning]

 

[free55]

The Benefits of Fluoride
By: Dr. George Obikoya

Fluorine occurs naturally in the Earth's crust, water, and food as the negatively charged ion, fluoride (F-). Fluoride is considered a trace element because only small amounts are present in the body (about 2.6 grams in adults), and because the daily requirement for maintaining dental health is only a few milligrams a day. About 95% of the total body fluoride is found in bones and teeth.

Although its role in the prevention of dental caries (tooth decay) is well established, fluoride is not generally considered an essential mineral element because humans do not require it for growth or to sustain life. However, if one considers the prevention of chronic disease (dental caries), an important criterion in determining essentiality, then fluoride might well be considered an essential trace element. Having healthy gums and teeth is important, recent studies show that unhealthy gums is a predecessor to heart disease.

Fluoride comes in several forms. It is known by the following names, calcium fluoride, stannous fluoride, sodium monofluorophosphate, and sodium fluoride. Sodium fluoride is added to most public drinking water. The prime dietary source for fluoride are typically treated drinking water however, it also shoes up in foods and beverages that have been grown in areas where the drinking water has been fluoridated and then used in the manufacture of those products. Fluoride?s primary function in the human body is to strengthen the bone and it is known to prevent tooth decay. Experts contend that fluoride strengthens the teeth?s enamel by strengthening the mineral composition of the teeth themselves.

Fluoride is absorbed in the stomach and small intestine. Once in the blood stream it rapidly enters mineralized tissue (bones and developing teeth). At usual intake levels, fluoride does not accumulate in soft tissue. The predominant mineral elements in bone are crystals of calcium and phosphate, known as hydroxyapatite crystals. Fluoride's high chemical reactivity and small radius allow it to either displace the larger hydroxyl (-OH) ion in the hydroxyapatite crystal, forming fluoroapatite, or to increase crystal density by entering spaces within the hydroxyapatite crystal. Fluoroapatite hardens tooth enamel and stabilizes bone mineral.

Both calcium and magnesium form insoluble complexes with fluoride and are capable of significantly decreasing fluoride absorption when present in the same meal. However, the absorption of fluoride in the form of monofluorophosphate (unlike sodium fluoride) is unaffected by calcium. A diet low in chloride (salt) has been found to increase fluoride retention by reducing urinary excretion of fluoride.

In humans, the only clear effect of inadequate fluoride intake is an increased risk of dental caries (tooth decay) for individuals of all ages. Studies of patterns of water consumption and the prevalence of dental caries across different climates and geographic regions with different water fluoride concentrations in the United States led to the development of a recommended optimum range of fluoride concentration of 0.7-1.2 mg/liter or parts per million (ppm), with the lower concentration recommended for warmer climates where water consumption is higher, and the higher concentration for colder climates. A number of studies conducted prior to the introduction of fluoride-containing toothpastes demonstrated that the prevalence of dental caries was 40% to 60% lower in communities with optimal water fluoride concentrations than in communities with low water fluoride concentrations.

The Food and Nutrition Board (FNB) of the Institute of Medicine updated its recommendations for fluoride intake in 1997. The FNB felt there was inadequate data to set a Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA), instead Adequate Intake (AI) levels were based on estimated intakes (0.05 mg/kg of body weight) that have been shown to reduce the occurrence of dental caries most effectively without causing the unwanted side effect of tooth enamel mottling known as dental fluorosis.

Although the role of fluoride in preventing dental caries is well established, the mechanisms for its effects are not entirely understood. Originally, it was believed that fluoride incorporated into the enamel during tooth development resulted in a more acid-resistant enamel. More recent research indicates that the primary action of fluoride occurs topically (at the surface) after the teeth erupt into the mouth.

When enamel is partially demineralized by organic acids, fluoride in the saliva can enhance the remineralization of enamel through its interactions with calcium and phosphate. In the presence of fluoride, remineralized enamel contains more fluoride and is more resistant to demineralization. In salivary concentrations associated with optimum fluoride intake, fluoride has been found to inhibit bacterial enzymes, resulting in reduced acid production by cariogenic bacteria
Fluoride intake is ideally begun early in childhood when the formation of teeth and bones is still taking place, therefore strengthening the initial buds for the future. Fluoride is also known to aid in strengthening developing bone structure. Even though it is so important to proper functioning of the human organism, fluoride deficiency does occur but typically only in regions where water that is regularly consumed is not treated with fluoridation.

[Michael Fisher]

We were in Market Basket the other day. I saw a gallon bottle of water with a picture of a baby on it. Flouridated, purified water.

Did the baby's fluoridated teeth look like this?

http://www.fluoridation.com/teeth6.htm

[KBCraig]

Flouridated, purified water.

Well, which was it? Flouridated, or purified?

Flouride is not big on my list of worries, but I'd prefer not to have it. Our city water here is not flouridated. Now and then, a "concerned coalition" of dentists pushes for flouride. Not that they'd have any ulterior motives, or anything. 

Kevin

[Pat McCotter]

Flouridated, purified water.

Well, which was it? Flouridated, or purified?

??? Purified water cannot be fluoridated?

I mean as opposed to spring water - this water was labelled as purified with fluoride added. Spring water has no processing done to it. Some bottled waters are "purified"- I don't know the process used, sometimes reverse osmosis filtration and exposure to UV light. The source of the water could be spring, well or regular city tap water.

[KBCraig]

Flouridated, purified water.

Well, which was it? Flouridated, or purified?

??? Purified water cannot be fluoridated?

Sure it can. But then it's no longer purified. Flouridated water can be purified, but then it's no longer flouridated.

I only meant to point out the irony of water claiming to be both purified, and flouridated. 

Kevin

[Kat Kanning]

Doesn't sound like something that's good for bones to me.  I recommend the book:  The Fluoride Deception for an indepth view on why fluoride has been portrayed as healthful.


http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/diseases/fluorosis/en/

Fluorosis

The disease and how it affects people

Ingestion of excess fluoride, most commonly in drinking-water, can cause fluorosis which affects the teeth and bones. Moderate amounts lead to dental effects, but long-term ingestion of large amounts can lead to potentially severe skeletal problems. Paradoxically, low levels of fluoride intake help to prevent dental caries. The control of drinking-water quality is therefore critical in preventing fluorosis. The condition and its effect on people Fluorosis is caused by excessive intake of fluoride. The dental effects of fluorosis develop much earlier than the skeletal effects in people exposed to large amounts of fluoride. Clinical dental fluorosis is characterized by staining and pitting of the teeth. In more severe cases all the enamel may be damaged. However, fluoride may not be the only cause of dental enamel defects. Enamel opacities similar to dental fluorosis are associated with other conditions, such as malnutrition with deficiency of vitamins D and A or a low protein-energy diet. Ingestion of fluoride after six years of age will not cause dental fluorosis.

Chronic high-level exposure to fluoride can lead to skeletal fluorosis. In skeletal fluorosis, fluoride accumulates in the bone progressively over many years. The early symptoms of skeletal fluorosis, include stiffness and pain in the joints. In severe cases, the bone structure may change and ligaments may calcify, with resulting impairment of muscles and pain.

Acute high-level exposure to fluoride causes immediate effects of abdominal pain, excessive saliva, nausea and vomiting. Seizures and muscle spasms may also occur.

The cause

Acute high-level exposure to fluoride is rare and usually due to accidental contamination of drinking-water or due to fires or explosions. Moderate-level chronic exposure (above 1.5 mg/litre of water - the WHO guideline value for fluoride in water) is more common. People affected by fluorosis are often exposed to multiple sources of fluoride, such as in food, water, air (due to gaseous industrial waste), and excessive use of toothpaste. However, drinking water is typically the most significant source. A person's diet, general state of health as well as the body's ability to dispose of fluoride all affect how the exposure to fluoride manifests itself.

Distribution

Fluoride in water is mostly of geological origin. Waters with high levels of fluoride content are mostly found at the foot of high mountains and in areas where the sea has made geological deposits. Known fluoride belts on land include: one that stretches from Syria through Jordan, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Sudan and Kenya, and another that stretches from Turkey through Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, India, northern Thailand and China. There are similar belts in the Americas and Japan. In these areas fluorosis has been reported.

Scope of the Problem

The prevalence of dental and skeletal fluorosis is not entirely clear. It is believed that fluorosis affects millions of people around the world, but as regards dental fluorosis the very mild or mild forms are the most frequent.

Interventions

Removal of excessive fluoride from drinking-water is difficult and expensive. The preferred option is to find a supply of safe drinking-water with safe fluoride levels. Where access to safe water is already limited, de-fluoridation may be the only solution. Methods include: use of bone charcoal, contact precipitation, use of Nalgonda or activated alumina (Nalgonda is called after the town in South India, near Hyderabad, where the aluminium sulfate-based defluoridation was first set up at a water works level). Since all methods produce a sludge with very high concentration of fluoride that has to be disposed of, only water for drinking and cooking purposes should be treated, particularly in the developing countries.

Health education regarding appropriate use of fluorides.

Mothers in affected areas should be encouraged to breastfeed since breast milk is usually low in fluoride.

[free55]

It comes down to the dosage (like anything else).  The science is pretty clear on the value.  However, the dosage - or water concentration - has to be controlled.  Too much and you get the discoloration of teeth.  Way too much and it becomes lethal.

Ever see anyone with tan or brown streaked teeth that otherwise look normal?  Most likely that's a situation where too much antibiotic (erythromicin, I think) was prescribed to fight a young person's acne.  Too much of the antibiotic stains the teeth.

Aspirin is great for a headache, reduction in heart disease and colon cancer, and prevention of stroke.  Take too much and you burn holes in your stomach.  Way too much and it becomes lethal.

Rarely is anything, especially a chemical, either simply good or bad.