Parking Tickets and the “Consent of the Governed”

[Caleb]

Actually, they are likely to ignore him until he accumulates more than 3 such tickets. Or maybe its 5. I asked the Keene Police once what they would do if someone didn't pay a ticket, and they don't do anything until you reach a certain number of them.

[FTL_Ian]

NH Constitution:

Article 1. [Equality of Men; Origin and Object of Government.] All men are born equally free and independent; therefore, all government of right originates from the people, is founded in consent

You politicos should at least agree my position is constitutional.

I DO NOT CONSENT.

If you don't like it because you're worried about what people might think, too damn bad.  I think most people hate these petty rules, so maybe more people will refuse consent if they see our successes.

[SethCohn]

Actually, they are likely to ignore him until he accumulates more than 3 such tickets. Or maybe its 5. I asked the Keene Police once what they would do if someone didn't pay a ticket, and they don't do anything until you reach a certain number of them.

Right, I did say "tickets."

[FTL_Ian]

Were you similarly upset at David for "poisoning the well" when he refused to comply with their car registration rules and fine?

[d_goddard]

Ian, you get special treatment from us because -- like it or not, and though you make every effort to properly disclaim that you are not an official representative of the Free State Project -- you are a highly visible member of the community, making every effort to get your name and opinions in as much media as you can.

It would be unrealistic to suggest that your actions, good or bad, do not also paint other FSP members.
If you spent 2 hours a week at the food bank, all FSPers would -- unjustly -- be thought of as Good Considerate People who help out at soup kitchens.
If you raped and murdered a teenager, all FSPers would -- unjustly -- be thought of as "people who might kill your kid"

Not logic, just human nature.

That is why, when your arguments seem way into la-la land, some people will say you are hurting the rest of our efforts.

By the way and for the record, I did not make that assertion. Please do not put me in the same group as Seth, who did make the "poisoning the well" statement. I am an individual, not a group, and I do not appreciate being lumped in with others who do things that I do not condone

[SethCohn]

NH Constitution:

Article 1. [Equality of Men; Origin and Object of Government.] All men are born equally free and independent; therefore, all government of right originates from the people, is founded in consent

You politicos should at least agree my position is constitutional.

Refusal to Consent doesn't mean you can do whatever you want to do.  That's not a constitutional position.

I DO NOT CONSENT.

Then you should have clearly refused to do so.  You drive a car with a Florida License plate, under rules that offer equal swap for one state to other to allow easier travel.  Take OFF your license plate and drive without one.  Same goes for registration/etc.  Turn in your Florida Drivers License for the same reason, and drive without one.  Lauren is "Not Consenting", you are just pretending to get by without being stopped.

Next, don't park at the metered spots, which have openly posted rules to their use, but only at the spots that have no such restrictions of which there are plenty.  You'll have to walk a bit more, since you don't want to pay for the increased usefulness of the metered spots, but that's WHY they are metered - market driven for one thing.  (And a reason why downtowns with meters are losing to malls with free parking, they are ignoring the market driving forces)

If you don't like it because you're worried about what people might think, too damn bad.  I think most people hate these petty rules, so maybe more people will refuse consent if they see our successes.

I think most people will hear only half of your argument if any of it, and instead think all Libertarian Anarchist Free Staters are wacko nutjobs who just pretend government doesn't exist despite the clear evidence it does to all of us (tm), and the rest of us will spend our precious time digging out of the poor reputation holes you've dug us, rather then being able to focus on actual progress in reducing the size of government to where the 'maximum role of civil government is the protection of life, liberty, and property'

[Caleb]

How many times has the claim been made that someone is "ruining it" for you?

Too many.

If you want to help Ian be more effective, do so. Give him advice. But don't insinuate that he's hurting your cause. That's just not true.

[FTL_Ian]

Denis, my responses without quotes have mostly been to Seth, so if it seemed I was grouping you with him, I apologize. 

[FTL_Ian]

Refusal to Consent doesn't mean you can do whatever you want to do.  That's not a constitutional position.

I will do no harm, respect private property, and I do not consent to be governed.  Yes, I can do what I want.  Always have, always will.

[SethCohn]

Were you similarly upset at David for "poisoning the well" when he refused to comply with their car registration rules and fine?

David's not saying the same thing at all:
http://www.newhampshirefreepress.com/NHFreePress/?q=node/59

Trimmed for the bits needed to make my case:

Virtually everything the government has is based on a foundation of theft. They tax you with the threat of penalties if you fail to pay or even make a mistake.

The government then builds the road. The government, or another government unit zones all land, dividing some into business, retail, others factory, and other land into residential. This forces people to use the roads to get from point A to point B. The government then demands that you pay to license and register your vehicle, or else you are forbidden from using the vehicle on the government roads. Keep in mind that the road is already paid for by stealing your money from you in the first place.

I am a member of a loose group of people working to make the collection of revenue difficult for government. I call this process the Peaceful Pushback against the Police, or Pushback for short. Why the police? Because the police are the chief front line enForcers for the government. No politician enForces his/her own law. They require the police to do that for them. The process is essentially civil disobedience.

In November of 2007, I began my simple act of civil disobedience. I received a ticket for failure to register my vehicle. I was eventually given a 'speedy' court date of March 17 2008, as I have contested the ticket. I am of course guilty of failing to register my vehicle, but I refuse to be nickel and dimed by a revenue hungry government. I do not exist for the purpose of acting as a never-ending piggy bank for a greedy and spendthrift government. Further, by challenging the ticket, I have increased the cost of enforcing the government law, in this case registering of my vehicle, and the fee that goes with it.

I am likely to be found guilty. I will then refuse to pay the initial fine and any court fees that may be assessed. I am ready to go to jail, again to increase the cost of enforcement. I am uncertain where this process will eventually end up but the means are more important than the end.

I don't think most people can argue with most of the above, as statements of fact.... nothing crazy there at all.

[SethCohn]

Ian, you get special treatment from us because -- like it or not, and though you make every effort to properly disclaim that you are not an official representative of the Free State Project -- you are a highly visible member of the community, making every effort to get your name and opinions in as much media as you can.

It would be unrealistic to suggest that your actions, good or bad, do not also paint other FSP members.
If you spent 2 hours a week at the food bank, all FSPers would -- unjustly -- be thought of as Good Considerate People who help out at soup kitchens.
If you raped and murdered a teenager, all FSPers would -- unjustly -- be thought of as "people who might kill your kid"

Not logic, just human nature.

That is why, when your arguments seem way into la-la land, some people will say you are hurting the rest of our efforts.

By the way and for the record, I did not make that assertion. Please do not put me in the same group as Seth, who did make the "poisoning the well" statement. I am an individual, not a group, and I do not appreciate being lumped in with others who do things that I do not condone

What he said.  Except I did make the Poisoning the Well statement, and meant it.  Your media exposure/savvy puts you well beyond David, and others, and even beyond Ridley, Lauren or Russell.  If you come off as 'wacko', it _does_ hurt the rest of us far more.

[FTL_Ian]

Then you should have clearly refused to do so.  You drive a car with a Florida License plate, under rules that offer equal swap for one state to other to allow easier travel.  Take OFF your license plate and drive without one.  Same goes for registration/etc.  Turn in your Florida Drivers License for the same reason, and drive without one.

I've actually been considering this, and we've been talking about getting Shire license plates.  I appreciate that you want me to jump in all at once, and I'm sorry I'm testing the water first.  Of course it's easy for you to sit and armchair quarterback me...

[FTL_Ian]

What he said.  Except I did make the Poisoning the Well statement, and meant it.  Your media exposure/savvy puts you well beyond David, and others, and even beyond Ridley, Lauren or Russell.  If you come off as 'wacko', it _does_ hurt the rest of us far more.

Boo-hoo.

We have our own media specifically so we can explain stuff like this so people understand.  I can't please everyone, and won't try.

[SethCohn]

How many times has the claim been made that someone is "ruining it" for you?

Too many.

Actually, these days, I make it far less often, but that's more about who is doing what now... we have more political activism, and less CD... we have newspapers published, bills passed, etc...  The worst 'ruining it' example no longer lives in NH, and he was a flake no matter which side of the fence (political or non) he was on...  Oh, and you aren't here either, Caleb. (big huge grin)

[SethCohn]

I've actually been considering this, and we've been talking about getting Shire license plates.  I appreciate that you want me to jump in all at once, and I'm sorry I'm testing the water first.  Of course it's easy for you to sit and armchair quarterback me...

No, I'm not armchairing... I'm pointing out that claiming "I refuse to consent" in bold caps, and yet using items that clearly ARE part of the system, are mutually exclusive.

I don't care what you do, plates or not, but don't claim you aren't consenting, but are driving around with plates.  Lauren drove with an Area51 plate, not a real state plate.

And as for my own actions, I pick fights I can win, not fight windmills.  That's Russell's method, not mine.
I've set my sights quite low in the last two years, because of the political winds and for personal reasons.