Parking Tickets and the “Consent of the Governed”

[srqrebel]

Just curious... if you did not consent to their terms, which I am sure you were fully aware of, then why did you park in one of their parking spaces?  There are other, non-metered options available in downtown Keene.

It isn't theirs, but, it isn't his either.  The problem here is that it doesn't belong to anyone.

I would have to agree with J'raxis:

Anyone who paid taxes or fees to had their money stolen by the city.

But I see your point, Lloyd.  It is quite impossible to determine actual ownership at this point, so for all intents and purposes it doesn't belong to anyone.

I had been parking regularly at the cheaper parking spaces off the main drag, and feeding the meter.  At one point I even paid a batch of unpaid parking tickets I had accumulated.  My reasoning was that the metered spaces were convenient, and if they were privately owned, I would have no issue with dropping some change for the service.  Since I know the policy when I park there, and choose to park there anyway, I am implicitly consenting to their policy -- so I considered it my duty to pay the penalty for not keeping my end of the agreement by keeping the meter fed.

I had never given much thought to the validity of the city's claim to ownership, before Ian's refusal to pay.  After giving thought to the issue of ownership, I am no longer comfortable parking in "their" parking spaces, much less paying them for the "service".

[Russell Kanning]

Since I know the policy when I park there, and choose to park there anyway, I am implicitly consenting to their policy -- so I considered it my duty to pay the penalty for not keeping my end of the agreement by keeping the meter fed.

are you mad man?
if the king says that all of the roads are owned by him and you have to pay tolls .... do you not have the ability to walk anywhere?
if I say that all the ground surrounding your truck is mine when you wake up .... do you have to ask my permission or pay if I set up a meter if you want to move it a few feet?

do you only give in to the claims of those who use violence to enforce their "rights"?

[David]

Russell is right. 
The root of everything the gov't does is with force.  Even when the 'honestly' buy land instead of use eminent domain, it is with money taken after threat of fines, forfeiture of property, and threat of jail is made. 

[Porcupine_in_MA]

Russell is right. 
The root of everything the gov't does is with force.

Yep, along with the presumption that the gang of thugs is legitimate, that presumption fostered by generations raised by the government.

[TackleTheWorld]

They are using your virtue against you, srqrebel.

[srqrebel]

Russell and Lauren, did you even read my entire post?

They are not using my virtue against me anymore.

[Russell Kanning]

probably not

[FTL_Ian]

I had never given much thought to the validity of the city's claim to ownership, before Ian's refusal to pay.  After giving thought to the issue of ownership, I am no longer comfortable parking in "their" parking spaces, much less paying them for the "service".

This is the confusing part.  Does that mean you will not park in any metered spaces anymore?

[Russell Kanning]

or more importantly ... why is it wrong for Ian to park there and not pay?
does he have any less claim to it than others?

[srqrebel]

This is the confusing part.  Does that mean you will not park in any metered spaces anymore?

Not unless I have to... which is highly unlikely.

I'll walk a decent distance to avoid doing so.

I'd rather avoid the meters altogether if I can.  When you don't feed the meter, and you don't pay the ticket, they eventually tow your vehicle and keep it until you pay up.  I would rather just avoid the metered parking spaces altogether, than to later face the choice between paying their $25 late ticket or donating my truck to them.

[srqrebel]

or more importantly ... why is it wrong for Ian to park there and not pay?
does he have any less claim to it than others?

Did someone claim it was wrong for Ian to park there and not pay?

I know I didn't, so I will let you answer your own question, Russell.

I fully support him in his decision, and hope he does not eventually face forfeiture of his vehicle or else have to back down.

(I bolded and underlined the "not" for the benefit of those who like to respond without paying close attention to what was said in the first place.)

[Russell Kanning]

cool

[Lloyd Danforth]

or more importantly ... why is it wrong for Ian to park there and not pay?
does he have any less claim to it than others?

I think he should go back, park there, squat and declare it Ianland

[John Edward Mercier]

Since I know the policy when I park there, and choose to park there anyway, I am implicitly consenting to their policy -- so I considered it my duty to pay the penalty for not keeping my end of the agreement by keeping the meter fed.

are you mad man?
if the king says that all of the roads are owned by him and you have to pay tolls .... do you not have the ability to walk anywhere?
if I say that all the ground surrounding your truck is mine when you wake up .... do you have to ask my permission or pay if I set up a meter if you want to move it a few feet?

do you only give in to the claims of those who use violence to enforce their "rights"?

Question: If I go park in your yard... how will you make me leave without force?
I realize I initiated the aggression by parking on land I did not have claim to... but it would still take force to repel the aggression.

[KBCraig]

Question: If I go park in your yard... how will you make me leave without force?
I realize I initiated the aggression by parking on land I did not have claim to... but it would still take force to repel the aggression.

I'm sure Russell could find a creative way to persuade you to move your car, without using any force against you in return.

He might park other vehicles around yours. He might dig a deep moat, or pile big rocks, around your car, making it impossible to move. He might give you a courtesy warning that he's going to be felling trees for the Hobbit Hole, and while he would never intentionally damage your car, he's not all that confident of his chainsaw skills...