Where is the Libertarian Pacifist Tradition?

[dalebert]

You make good points, Caleb. I once had a conversation with another porc where I said violence is a horrible thing. And he made the self defense exception and I reminded him that no, it's still horrible. It may be justified, which can be argued, but it's still horrible which is why it should at most be a last resort. I'm not where you are, but I do prefer to think of it as a last resort rather than as something which is justified for self defense. It's a slightly more restrictive criteria. I certainly am not comfortable shooting someone because they won't leave my property, for instance, though most AnCaps would say that's justified. I'd like to pursue countless other alternatives. If it came down to some violent person physically attacking me where I was terrified for my life and limb, I'd probably use violence at that point, and I'd probably not have much reservation. I don't even think I'd pull my punches, so to speak. Of course, I don't believe in an after-life like you.

I think this is also why I don't particularly want to get the type of firearm training that involves shooting someone who's right on top of you and using the force of the shot to knock them back. I can't help but think that I just never want to decide THAT FAST that I'm going to shoot another human being. If that situation happens, I guess I'm just going to be toast. Oh well. I tend to think of the biggest benefit of firearms as a deterrent. Just having the right to carry them acts as a first stage of deterrence. Then being seen with one can act as a second stage. Drawing it, a third stage. Firing it without actually hitting the person in some cases can be yet another stage which may work before you actually have to shoot a person.

[Caleb]

Hell, if I fired a firearm, I'd probably end up not hitting them, even if I was trying to hit them.

I like your points, Dale, because I think that what is even more unfortunate than violence, is that some people seem to revel in it. they like it. They like to think about it. They like to imagine it. They're almost itching to have a chance to try out their new gun on somebody. And like you say, even if a person got in a life and death situation and used force to stay alive, it's not like a nice thing happened. It's sad and tragic.

[J’raxis 270145]

Hell, if I fired a firearm, I'd probably end up not hitting them, even if I was trying to hit them.

I like your points, Dale, because I think that what is even more unfortunate than violence, is that some people seem to revel in it. they like it. They like to think about it. They like to imagine it. They're almost itching to have a chance to try out their new gun on somebody. And like you say, even if a person got in a life and death situation and used force to stay alive, it's not like a nice thing happened. It's sad and tragic.

People get angry enough, they want to take it out on someone, and the first person to give them an excuse to engage in justifiable violence makes a great target. Since so many people come to the libertarian position through anger at the system (and in many cases, something it did to them directly), should it be any wonder they're like that?

[Russell Kanning]

I agree guys. That is the way basically everyone actually lives their lives.
It is easier to make decisions when they are not life and death.

[micahtredding]

Hey guys,

I think libertarian pacifism is a much-needed formulation, and the true bent of libertarian ideals. I would really like to see it put forth concisely and coherently. As far as I know, there isn't really much of a center (website, etc) for expressing it.

I would like to remedy this. Do you have any ideas about how to do so? Or is there some big resource that I've missed?

Thanks,

-Micah

[John Edward Mercier]

Anything on voluntaryism should suffice. It only allows for giving not taking.
A contract for you to mow my lawn would look something like this.

I give you $20. You give me the labor/equipment to mow my lawn... or... you do not give me the labor/equipment to mow my lawn. The first action results in my further wishing to interact with you... while the second will lead to me less likely to want to interact. This leads to a continuum that goes from friendship to ostracism... and if related to the group can result in a continuum of leadership to exile.