Freeing Yourself From Politics

[Russell Kanning]

(Raising my hand.)  I'm almost there.  My original plan was to move to NH in August, but besides marginally lower taxes, I'm not sure what I would gain.  I might as well move to Singapore for lower taxes (as I nearly did a while back).  Stef hit on something eating at me from inside.

I don't want to reform the State.  I want to be free from it's grasp.

I don't want to free others anymore; they don't want to be free.

You are correct. I wouldn't recommend moving to NH to anyone who just wants to escape the evil empire. There are better places ... such as Belize ... for that.
But if you want to change the world, by adding your efforts to others in one special place ... then the Shire might be for you.
I wasn't paying Fed Income Taxes in CA ... so moving to NH didn't make much difference in that way.
Have fun in whatever you choose to do.

[FTL_Ian]

I bet Stef isn't very aware of the out of the system porcs. I agree.

He has to be aware of that, as I've spoken with him explicitly about it.

[Pat K]

I bet it's just the NH beer he likes 

So now my longer answer. This will be one
of my usual rambling cluster fucks. So if
you can stop reading here if thats not for
you.

So if I am starting to agree with Stef, why
would I want to be moving to cold ass,
snowy NH?

Well I would like to write some true intellectual
treatise here but I can't. Because this will be about
feelings.(AAAHHHHHHHH) Yes feelings and their
worth. (sorry Ayn )

Despite the fact that we are stand alone type
folk. We also like to be around folk of like mind,
of good values and deeds,were freedom is held
sincerely.
In NH you can be, you crazy early moving folk
have proved this to me over and over.

Tis rare to see joy (thats right dammit I wrote joy)
in people these days. I see it in NH among the FSP
movers. Smiling, joking, working together, it is enough
to make a NYer sick. How much is that worth?

Why even anti-social people come out and have a good time.
Curmudgeons have been known to laugh. None of it is forced
it is simply the free interaction of people with good spirit.
You can come to a gathering and go home refreshed.
How much is that worth?

Oh don't get me wrong, its not all fun.You will also see hurt.
True hurt (not the fake oh I am concerned B.S. kind) in the
eyes of friends.The gut kind of hurt, when some one is
dragged off to jail or is sick or falls on bad times.
How much is that worth?

You will disagree with people, some times greatly.
Each side will fight for their point of view,  you will be forced to think and refine your point of view
You might even start agreeing with Stef or some
sharp cartoon drawing, nap stealing SOB.
How much is that worth?

You might change your mind you might not.
You might not be happy with some folk some days.
But you can still call them friend. You can still work and
live with them. You can at least be happy they have
a point of view and are not eating chips on a couch
in their parents house. Living off your tax dollars.
How much is that worth?

All of the above is worth a lot to me.

It is worth a lot to the folks in NH even
if they wont admit it.

So while it will be later than some
sooner or later, I will see you in the
Shire.

Beer is a good thing, but I can get Beer anywere.

[Kat Kanning]

But not Goat Scroat beer....

[Pat K]

But not Goat Scroat beer....

This is true. 

[memenode]

Sorry to be reviving this, but I had to comment on a few things. I watched the video and it was really exhilarating, but by the end he was saying things like "sure, pay your dues, what are you gonna do when they're holding guns at you".

But when I consider the anger which he expresses when he argues against government as well as the argument that worrying about who wins the elections is actually in a way perpetuating the system I also can't escape the fact that paying taxes is doing the same. Sure it's more passive and less consuming than politics addiction, but it's your money, your lifeline, your own earned wealth and you're funding the government with it.. So, I just thought I'd express that - I honestly felt he's gonna argue against paying taxes too..

Another thing I wanted to comment on is what some of you here said about the reasons for moving to NH. I'm from Europe and my chances of moving legally are next to non-existent. Even getting a tourist visa and moving as an illegal immigrant might be prohibitively hard and expensive. Now you guys are saying that the biggest worth is in that you're surrounded by people who feel the same, which I can definitely understand, but Kat actually mentioned that if you just want to escape the government places like Belize might be better.

And this gets me thinking... since I am in a sense deprived of the opportunity to move in to NH and be around you people, perhaps I should consider some other places like Belize as mentioned. We can STILL work together on things. My business is 100% internet based so it moves along with me and I would be active in this community regardless of whether I ever get to see you face to face. It's not like I'm not used to it already. (I'm a geeky kinda critter, half of my life IS on the net ).

So that's really intriguing.. FSP has sparked up something that has an international appeal, obviously, but we need not focus now merely on moving everyone to NH. NH is basically now perhaps just the forming physical meeting place of the movement, but the movement is much larger and ultimate change must be global. Those who can't move to NH should perhaps be given alternative destinations around the world, where they can exercise their freedom with less fear of government retaliation.

[Free libertarian]

gu3st, too bad you can't come to NH, the more the merrier. In the meantime, the idea of supporting freedom from wherever you are is a good one.  I think the idea behind the FSP was to create a 3 alarm blaze of freedom in one locale, but brush fires of liberty aren't bad in any location, who knows maybe they'll grow faster than they can be pissed out by the bad guys.

I'm not a "free stater"...been in NH since JFK, but I'm happy free staters are here and hope more come. 
I hope more natives smell the coffee and recognize that the principles of liberty are the underlying reasons for people coming here, not to "take over" as some fear. Misinformation seems to cause some natives to develope a rash at the thought of being over run or "having freedom crammed down their throats".

The idea of how we go about freeing ourselves from politics seems to be a controversial topic among the liberty loving folks who frequent this site.  Some move at a different pace than others, some are more inclined to be outspoken or "disobedient"...some work within the system. It's all good.  To overcome years of indoctrination isn't easy and frankly a little scary. I applaud all who do something.  Do what you can wherever you are.

Why can't you move here? Is it something to do with immigration policy? Can you visit? Who knows maybe you'll meet someone and be able to stay here?

[dalebert]

Paying taxes is fueling the state. I do feel a little bit cowardly and dirty when I pay them. I have my justifications, but I recognize them as such- justifications. I ultimately choose not to sacrifice myself for the greater good but I am exploring ways of paying much less, even if it means some amount of sacrifice like just being happy with making less, but I admire those with the courage and conviction to risk a lot more.

[John Edward Mercier]

Just part of the game, Dale.

[memenode]

Why can't you move here? Is it something to do with immigration policy? Can you visit? Who knows maybe you'll meet someone and be able to stay here?

Well, I checked a little while ago on nolo.com and later also on US embassy site here and I don't appear to be eligible for the "H1 visa". I also don't have any family in US. I talked a bit about that here.

To just come for a visit I apparently need to convince the officer that I don't intend to just stay there after the tourist visa expires, which apparently involves some paper proof that I have something to lose by staying in US longer than a given period, something that would compel me to come back. In any case, even if I somehow succeed at getting the tourist visa staying once it expires would make me an "illegal immigrant" so I'd bear some risks that come with that.. I suppose I'd be in a continuous state of civil disobedience from the moment visa expires?

There is also a financial aspect. I doubt I'll be able to afford all the costs, including the adjustment to the US living prices, any time in the immediate future, but this is something that I'll be working on so as to make any option of moving open, so I consider that a temporary obstacle.

As for meeting someone.. well yeah who knows.. but that's largely long shot to put my hopes into.

Anyway, does anyone have some suggestions about liberally oriented countries which might be an alternative to NH for those who can't get to US? I've read a bit about some offshore destinations and Belize is actually quite poor and with higher inflation. British Virgin Islands sound better, but I don't yet know about their taxes and regulations.. Both are also classified as offshore destinations and so their governments are a target by organizations which are trying to stop the offshore trend (because of worries of money laundering and whatnot)..

Thanks.