Money Project

[David]

Both the penny and the nickel are now worth more than their face value.  They are the only non fiat currency the US gov't authorizes.     They are actually making them at a loss.  While it is illegal to melt them down and sell the metal, it is not illegal to collect coins that the gov't makes at a loss to 'give to a good cause'.     I think I will start a savings account of nothing but pennies and nickels, I will spend the dimes and quarters. 

Relavant to this thread,  http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=12781.0  the nickel achieves everything that the hampshire does, and it does not currently profit the gov't at all, if we use them.  Plastic bank rolled nickels are in packs of 2 dollars, heavy to carry around, but still worth something.  Pennies are also heavy, but only worth 50 cents a roll. 

Watch the video clip.
http://www.coinnews.net/2008/02/10/is-the-us-penny-and-nickel-worth-keeping-60-minutes-asks-3915/

[malcolm]

All of these are legal tender as well, but have higher value per unit weight:
http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&identifier=1000

[J’raxis 270145]

http://www.coinflation.com/ helps you keep track of this in real time. Looks like the modern pennies have dropped back to about 2/3 of their face value, as of today.

[John Edward Mercier]

If by 'non-fiat' you mean that the inherent metallic value is equal to, or greater than, the face value...
the LD has always been a fiat currency, along with the others.

[dalebert]

If by 'non-fiat' you mean that the inherent metallic value is equal to, or greater than, the face value...
the LD has always been a fiat currency, along with the others.

Yes, I think what they meant is there is inherent value due to the metal content so it retains value outside of manipulations of the currency by the government much like silver and gold do.

[Puke]

Awesome, I already save my change.

[David]

http://www.coinflation.com/ helps you keep track of this in real time. Looks like the modern pennies have dropped back to about 2/3 of their face value, as of today.

Quote from Dr. No<We cannot even maintain a zinc standard>

The man knows his money. 

[David]

The nickel is currently about 7 cents.  Modern pennies are about a sixth of a cent.  Fast fall in price.  Older pennies are about 2.5 cents.  So zinc is cheap, and copper is expensive.  If they change the composition of the nickel, to match that of the penny, it would again be fiat.   
Interesting scenario.  Our currency is decimal.  The fiat value of coins are based on the 'value' of the dollar.  Of course inflation has rendered some of the coinage more value as metal, than coin.  Many countries that inflate rapidly have an official exchange rate to foreign currencies.  They also usually have an unofficial black market exchange rate that is prolly more accurate.  The US floats their money, that is, their is no 'official' exchange rate.  With the smaller coinage values approaching the price to make, I am wondering how that will affect the demand for them, and their relative value to the dollar bill. 
According to the video, they were hoarded in India when they ran into the same problem.  Presumably it was illegal to melt the rupee there as well. 

[Ron Helwig]

If by 'non-fiat' you mean that the inherent metallic value is equal to, or greater than, the face value...
the LD has always been a fiat currency, along with the others.

Yes, I think what they meant is there is inherent value due to the metal content so it retains value outside of manipulations of the currency by the government much like silver and gold do.

The Liberty Dollar is not fiat. Fiat has nothing to do with the content of the currency. Fiat basically just means "because government says so".

fiat currency or fiat money is money that has value primarily because a government demands it

Fiat Currency
Fiat (policy)
Military Fiat

BTW, I have started trying to not use FRNs. Whenever I have some, I go to the bank and trade them in for $1 coins (if they have them).

Mint coins are not backed by debt, unlike FRNs. They still aren't as good as using LDs or Shire Silver or bullion gold/silver/copper, but every bit helps.

[mackler]

If by 'non-fiat' you mean that the inherent metallic value is equal to, or greater than, the face value...
the LD has always been a fiat currency, along with the others.

Yes, I think what they meant is there is inherent value due to the metal content so it retains value outside of manipulations of the currency by the government much like silver and gold do.

The Liberty Dollar is not fiat. Fiat has nothing to do with the content of the currency. Fiat basically just means "because government says so".

fiat currency or fiat money is money that has value primarily because a government demands it

Fiat Currency
Fiat (policy)
Military Fiat

BTW, I have started trying to not use FRNs. Whenever I have some, I go to the bank and trade them in for $1 coins (if they have them).

Mint coins are not backed by debt, unlike FRNs. They still aren't as good as using LDs or Shire Silver or bullion gold/silver/copper, but every bit helps.

fiat: a command or act of will that creates something without or as if without further effort

There's "fiat," there's "worthless fiat," and there's "government fiat."
Fiat just means "it is made."
LD is fiat, but not government fiat, not worthless fiat.  It's fiat because Bernand declares what the face value is; it's not tied to the price of the metal content.  But the metal still has some value, so it's not worthless.
FRNs are worthless govenment fiat (effectively worthless except for the burn value).

US $1 coins come in both fiat and non fiat varieties.
These are fiat.
These are not.

[David]

There's "fiat," there's "worthless fiat," and there's "government fiat."
Fiat just means "it is made."

US $1 coins come in both fiat and non fiat varieties.
These are fiat.
These are not.

Yup. 
The gov't wants you to use the one dollar coins because they are much cheaper long run than the paper.  That is why they keep making them, and changing the design every few years.  They are trying to drum up demand for them, versus the paper.