Russell Arrested 3/17/08

[d_goddard]

I am not your Broom!

[RussellsEx]

I love how so many people are threatened to what is merely the 'other side of the story'.... its not even your story. Are you all angry white males?

[PattyLee loves dogs]

Are you all  angry white males?

There's good evidence that some posters here are female; the proportion of Asian/Pacific Islanders is unknown. But as you pointed out in an earlier post:

For all you know, I could be a middle-aged man who lives with his mother.

[SethCohn]

I love how so many people are threatened to what is merely the 'other side of the story'.... its not even your story. Are you all angry white males?

Sadly, most of those who are openly and vocally opposed to you and your side are 'angry white males', who mostly fit the typical 'libertarian loner' stereotype...  Most of those who have posted supportive items tend to be either female or men in a good relationship.  Of course, the FSP attracts more than the usual share of the first, though funny enough, we have a very high percentage of the second, far higher than most of the usual groupings you'd find anyplace else.

Those closest to Russell, of course, are concerned for him, regardless of the facts and/or laws, they just want Russell home, and nobody can blame them.

[coffeeseven]

I love how so many people are threatened to what is merely the 'other side of the story'.... its not even your story. Are you all angry white males?

I've spent years back and forth to family court. I've seen how judges feel about fathers v. mothers. I've seen my share of venomous State's Prosecutors acting all silly in court and gasping for air like they'd had their identity stolen by the father. Withholding the money from your ex sounds like a pretty good option after you've gotten the Abner Louima treatment a few times. Courts don't care if you only make $8 an hour. They're by God in Heaven going to take $4 of it to satisfy "back" child support. It's the crooked law du jour welfare after divorce system. Very lucrative for all but the father. I'm not in favor of it. In fact I'm not a fan of any forced welfare.

[Notanumber]

I love how so many people are threatened to what is merely the 'other side of the story'.... its not even your story. Are you all angry white males?

Sadly, most of those who are openly and vocally opposed to you and your side are 'angry white males', who mostly fit the typical 'libertarian loner' stereotype...  Most of those who have posted supportive items tend to be either female or men in a good relationship.  Of course, the FSP attracts more than the usual share of the first, though funny enough, we have a very high percentage of the second, far higher than most of the usual groupings you'd find anyplace else.
Those closest to Russell, of course, are concerned for him, regardless of the facts and/or laws, they just want Russell home, and nobody can blame them.

I object to your sterotyping most of Mindy's detractors as 'angry white males' and 'libertarian loners'.  I am a professional with a wife, kid, dog, mortgage, etc, and I find what Mindy has done here to be appalling.  She wanted to end the marriage, fine, that is her right.  But now she wants her cake and to eat it too, AND she is willing to have Russell thrown in prison to compel him to pay for it.  If he would resist or attempt escape, he would be injured at best, and killed at worst.

I will say that if I were in Russell's position, I probably would have found a creative way to provide support for the children without paying the ex-wife directly.  (for example, one friend of mine fought for and got 50/50 shared custody, another friend of mine bought an inexpensive dwelling, made the payment, and put it in the children's name.  The wife was evicted when the kids turned 18, and the kids got the house.  Another friend provided insurance, clothing and items that the children needed, but the mother could not avail herself of.)  But no one should ever be thrown in prison for failure to pay what amounts to a debt.  Mindy's willingness to avail herself of the new debtors prison speaks to her character.

Personally, I think that a strong, free, and independent woman in today's society would never do what Mindy has done.  I know my wife certainly wouldn't, and would be appalled at the very thought of it.  Before you ask, without sharing too much personal information, in her distant past, she was where Mindy was.  She chose to go it alone, with the advice and support of her family, rather than be a dependent, or 'go after' anyone.  The fact that she possesses such strength is one of the reasons I love her.   

IMHO, women like Mindy are the primary reason that there ARE so many angry men. 

Here is where my 'karma' drops deeply into the negative again...

[John Galt]

I love how so many people are threatened to what is merely the 'other side of the story'.... its not even your story. Are you all angry white males?

Racist and sexist too.  Interesting.

Mindy, we know it's probably impossible for you to understand that trying to force others, or having anyone else try to force others, may work with some people(especially when you're threatening them with murder at gunpoint for attempting to resist the robbery) but not so much with others.  Our most basic premise is the Non-Aggression Principle which does NOT allow for ANY initiation of force.  We don't recognize any supposed authority or jurisdiction over us.  All individual sovereign planetary human beings are just that.  Sovereign.  The looter mob mentality of the average apathetic and pathetic people of this planet leads directly to the terrifying and horrific conflicts that we experience daily at all levels of human interaction.

Perhaps you might watch www.zeitgeistmovie.com and read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand and Healing Our World In An Age Of Aggression by Mary Ruwart.

Is it really right to kidnap, torture, and murder human beings because they won't give you something?  And if so, who gets to decide when the looting becomes too much?  What happens when they do it to you?  Of course, right now you might claim that you weren't breaking any laws, but can you list them all?  And if you can't list them all, how do you know that you haven't broken one or more?  Now be honest.  You know those people in those black bathrobes have said more than once that ignorance of the law is no excuse.  And if you have should you be kidnapped, tortured, and murdered?

Perhaps you'd like to come and put the gun to Russell's head personally, or maybe you'd like to leave it to those operating on your behalf.  And those same thugs operating on your behalf HAVE murdered those who've resisted the theft and robbery so you ARE a willing benefactor and accomplice to those murders.  And if you claim you're not, then what have you done lately to get rid of the oppressors?

Thanks

[John Galt]

I love how so many people are threatened to what is merely the 'other side of the story'.... its not even your story. Are you all angry white males?

Sadly, most of those who are openly and vocally opposed to you and your side are 'angry white males', who mostly fit the typical 'libertarian loner' stereotype...  Most of those who have posted supportive items tend to be either female or men in a good relationship.  Of course, the FSP attracts more than the usual share of the first, though funny enough, we have a very high percentage of the second, far higher than most of the usual groupings you'd find anyplace else.
Those closest to Russell, of course, are concerned for him, regardless of the facts and/or laws, they just want Russell home, and nobody can blame them.

I object to your sterotyping most of Mindy's detractors as 'angry white males' and 'libertarian loners'.  I am a professional with a wife, kid, dog, mortgage, etc, and I find what Mindy has done here to be appalling.  She wanted to end the marriage, fine, that is her right.  But now she wants her cake and to eat it too, AND she is willing to have Russell thrown in prison to compel him to pay for it.  If he would resist or attempt escape, he would be injured at best, and killed at worst.

I will say that if I were in Russell's position, I probably would have found a creative way to provide support for the children without paying the ex-wife directly.  (for example, one friend of mine fought for and got 50/50 shared custody, another friend of mine bought an inexpensive dwelling, made the payment, and put it in the children's name.  The wife was evicted when the kids turned 18, and the kids got the house.  Another friend provided insurance, clothing and items that the children needed, but the mother could not avail herself of.)  But no one should ever be thrown in prison for failure to pay what amounts to a debt.  Mindy's willingness to avail herself of the new debtors prison speaks to her character.

Personally, I think that a strong, free, and independent woman in today's society would never do what Mindy has done.  I know my wife certainly wouldn't, and would be appalled at the very thought of it.  Before you ask, without sharing too much personal information, in her distant past, she was where Mindy was.  She chose to go it alone, with the advice and support of her family, rather than be a dependent, or 'go after' anyone.  The fact that she possesses such strength is one of the reasons I love her.   

IMHO, women like Mindy are the primary reason that there ARE so many angry men. 

Here is where my 'karma' drops deeply into the negative again...

ditto

[kola]

like i said earlier, the more she talks, the more revealing she becomes.

and yeah, welcome to negative karmaland, lol.

kola

[J’raxis 270145]

Powerchuter, I presume?

Exactly.  I didn't see you also noticed till I posted the above... so kudos to you for seeing it first.

The SimpleMachines forum admin area has a nifty little IP tracker 

Not the least bit useful considering Rob's moved at least once since he stopped posting here as Powerchuter. Additionally, a lot of us post while at Murphy's; that's an open wireless network where we all have the same IP.

[J’raxis 270145]

like i said earlier, the more she talks, the more revealing she becomes.

Indeed. I was trying to at least hear her out, but not after that racist/sexist comment about those who are against her here.

[John Edward Mercier]

I love how so many people are threatened to what is merely the 'other side of the story'.... its not even your story. Are you all angry white males?

Racist and sexist too.  Interesting.

Mindy, we know it's probably impossible for you to understand that trying to force others, or having anyone else try to force others, may work with some people(especially when you're threatening them with murder at gunpoint for attempting to resist the robbery) but not so much with others.  Our most basic premise is the Non-Aggression Principle which does NOT allow for ANY initiation of force.  We don't recognize any supposed authority or jurisdiction over us.  All individual sovereign planetary human beings are just that.  Sovereign.  The looter mob mentality of the average apathetic and pathetic people of this planet leads directly to the terrifying and horrific conflicts that we experience daily at all levels of human interaction.

Perhaps you might watch www.zeitgeistmovie.com and read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand and Healing Our World In An Age Of Aggression by Mary Ruwart.

Is it really right to kidnap, torture, and murder human beings because they won't give you something?  And if so, who gets to decide when the looting becomes too much?  What happens when they do it to you?  Of course, right now you might claim that you weren't breaking any laws, but can you list them all?  And if you can't list them all, how do you know that you haven't broken one or more?  Now be honest.  You know those people in those black bathrobes have said more than once that ignorance of the law is no excuse.  And if you have should you be kidnapped, tortured, and murdered?

Perhaps you'd like to come and put the gun to Russell's head personally, or maybe you'd like to leave it to those operating on your behalf.  And those same thugs operating on your behalf HAVE murdered those who've resisted the theft and robbery so you ARE a willing benefactor and accomplice to those murders.  And if you claim you're not, then what have you done lately to get rid of the oppressors?

Thanks

NAP would only apply to the initaition of fraud... not the self-defense against.

[SethCohn]

I object to your sterotyping most of Mindy's detractors as 'angry white males' and 'libertarian loners'.  I am a professional with a wife, kid, dog, mortgage, etc, and I find what Mindy has done here to be appalling.

What part of the word 'most' don't you understand?

  She wanted to end the marriage, fine, that is her right.  But now she wants her cake and to eat it too, AND she is willing to have Russell thrown in prison to compel him to pay for it.

... Mindy's willingness to avail herself of the new debtors prison speaks to her character...

No, she's already answered that 'charge', she's not responsible for Russell's being in jail, nor can she do anything about it.  "Willing" implies something quite untrue.  "accepting (and wishing otherwise) of the fact that he's in jail due to the consequences of his actions or lack thereof", yes.

Personally, I think that a strong, free, and independent woman in today's society would never do what Mindy has done.

What, file for a divorce, and accept some level of child support as part of a court settlement?  She made quite clear she attempted to negotiate an more than reasonable amount directly with Russell, and that she made deals with him which he reneged on.  A "strong free and independent woman" would have sued his ass more, not put up with his nonsense like living in a house yet letting it go toward foreclosure by not making payments, aka failure to live up to any reasonable standard of responsibility. (Based of course on the accuracy of her statements, which at this point, I have no reason to doubt, since while I like Russell, her description of his actions fits with his personality as I know it...)

ditto

Except Rob isn't married with a wife and kid, so it's not really a ditto on that level.

[Lactivist]

Personally, I think that a strong, free, and independent woman in today's society would never do what Mindy has done.  I know my wife certainly wouldn't, and would be appalled at the very thought of it.  Before you ask, without sharing too much personal information, in her distant past, she was where Mindy was.  She chose to go it alone, with the advice and support of her family, rather than be a dependent, or 'go after' anyone.  The fact that she possesses such strength is one of the reasons I love her.   

I'm sorry, this is totally demented thinking.  She possesses the strength to go it alone, ok.  She is an incredible person for doing that.  The point, however, is that she shouldn't HAVE to.  I consider myself a strong, free, independent woman.  I do feel as Seth and others have said, that there is an obligation to children.  It is not a contract, it is personal responsibility for your half of a human life.  I am married to someone who has a child with someone else (prior to marriage) and we experience the unfairness of child support laws every day.  I'm not saying I agree with the law.  I'm saying a parent has a responsibility for their child.  I don't necessarily think going through the courts is the right way, but if parties can't agree...it seems a viable option in today's society. 

Don't get me wrong, I am a huge Russell supporter.  I feel he is a great person and activist, but I can't attest to his past or his personal life.  I don't want to comment on his personal situation, I feel we can't accurately get a picture and it isn't much of our business.  I want to say that there is an obligation to your children.  They wouldn't exist without your actions.  I feel it is a personal responsibility, and there are many ways to provide (I agree a court/stateset monetary obligation  is infuriating and pointless...I know my husband's child gets little of the money that is taken from him).

[RussellsEx]

First of all, I would like to publicly thank those of you who understand what I am trying to say. I can't say enough how saddened I am by all that is happening to Russell. There will always be those who disagree, those who dissect each word...those who just have different views. This is not political for me. Its personal. Its what happened to me and to Joe, and Jesse and Katie. We worked very hard for many years, alone and without support. Thankfully, family and friends helped. However, Russell is where he is today, due to his personal choices. I have very little to do with that. And though I am glad he is out of our lives, I recognize he has a new life....but it is one that he is destroying. He robbed his first family, and now the pattern continues, albeit with a different slant. He is robbing his second family of his time and money too, just to make a point. He owes $139,000 to his children. He could have negotiated that out of court for many years.

For you, his supporters, why wouldn't he do that? Because you say, he couldn't see the kids...? He could have. I couldn't have stopped him, by law. And never tried...So what is your sticking point here? That I haven't given him enough chances? That because I wanted to be divorced from someone who physically harmed our children, I should 'go it alone'?

I am not a murderer, kidnapper...or otherwise, as one person so villified me. In my own defense, I have quite courageously handled many difficulties that Russell would not. At the end of the day, I look at our three wonderful kids...and thank God for how far He has brought us. And I have peace about it.