Russell Arrested 3/17/08

[coffeeseven]

I went down to the courthouse, since I couldn't get anything out of them over the phone.  He is being held until he fills out the financial affadafit and tells them his employment status.  So basically, they keep him forever since he won't give in.

Has this changed and is he still being held at Westmoreland?

[Tom Sawyer]

This is my recollection  of what happened to my friend Russell  ...

Thanks for sharing your version of events.

[kola]

thanks for posting jay.

this mindy gal did not tell us these things.



kola

[srqrebel]

I don't know who this Jay is... but I know one thing for sure: This new version of events fits the Russell Kanning I know far more accurately than the one offered by RussellsEx.

When in doubt, I always choose the version of events that most closely matches my personal observations. Sorry Mindy... you have just been trumped!

[Kat Kanning]

Thanks for posting, Jay.

Re:  writing to the judge - there are no letters to the judge in Russell's file.  I suspect the "nice lady" who gave me the info about Russell's court appearance previously is throwing them away.  She acted like she wanted to choke me.  Honestly, I've never met anyone so hostile.  And she was postively simpering with sympathy for the woman in line before me who was getting a divorce...

coffeeseven, maybe we should get together with some of the existing dad's avocacy groups and see what we can do to help?  I've talked to one group in NH a little already.  Seems like most guys I meet have a story like this.  It is most assuredly in the government's interest to keep men and women at each other's throats.  There are two ladies I know of also who write on the issue - Wendy McElroy and Phyllis Schlafly - they might have some interesting info.

[coffeeseven]

Thanks for posting, Jay.

Re:  writing to the judge - there are no letters to the judge in Russell's file.  I suspect the "nice lady" who gave me the info about Russell's court appearance previously is throwing them away.  She acted like she wanted to choke me.  Honestly, I've never met anyone so hostile.  And she was postively simpering with sympathy for the woman in line before me who was getting a divorce...

coffeeseven, maybe we should get together with some of the existing dad's avocacy groups and see what we can do to help?  I've talked to one group in NH a little already.  Seems like most guys I meet have a story like this.  It is most assuredly in the government's interest to keep men and women at each other's throats.  There are two ladies I know of also who write on the issue - Wendy McElroy and Phyllis Schlafly - they might have some interesting info.

Sounds good. I'm for doing whatever needs to be done. There but for the grace of God....

[LotharSNL]

I felt compelled to mention that Russell may not wish his personal life shared with the court.  We all wish him physically freed, but not at a price he is unwilling to pay.  As much as I hate to suggest it, this maybe the way Russell remains, a free man fighting, the rest of his life.  I don't wish to upset anyone.  I just really hope that any action taken is with Russell's blessing.  His ability to bear this injustice may depend on it.

[jaqeboy]

Again, this is all process stuff, but, if I recall correctly, the process that is used in cases like this, a case-worker (in a DHS-like branch of the California govt) has the child support order and is monitoring "compliance" with it, and has, at a certain point, brought an action for contempt in that Court. Presumably they found for contempt and issued an order or bench warrant (so, it would be helpful to find out what the California order is). Then, upon ascertaining that the contemnor's whereabouts are out of state, the case-worker probly (goes through some process to transfer the case and) has the local (to the contemnor) case-worker petition the local court for enforcement of a foreign (other state) order. There are probably, by now, uniform state statutes making this process fairly seamless. Layered on top of this may be  (I'm not current on this) federal statutes making things even more onerous.

So, then, al in all, as I said earlier, at the street level in N.H., this is most likely a civil contempt issue, which is how they get around it being considered de jure debtors' prison. De facto, it has that effect, of course.

from Wikipedia on civil contempt:

Sanctions for contempt may be criminal or civil. If a person is to be punished criminally, then the contempt must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, but once the charge is proven, then punishment (such as a fine or, in more serious cases, imprisonment) is imposed unconditionally. The civil sanction for contempt (which is typically incarceration in the custody of the sheriff or similar court officer) is limited in its imposition for so long as the disobedience to the court's order continues: once the party complies with the court's order, the sanction is lifted. The contemnor is said to "hold the keys" to his or her own cell, thus conventional due process is not required. The burden of proof for civil contempt, however, is a preponderance of the evidence, and punitive sanctions (punishment) can only be imposed after due process. [emphasis added]

Dissecting this, most likely the caseworker in California proved the contempt on a preponderance of evidence. There would have been an opportunity to rebut their case in the original hearing there, and, if Russell did not rebut it, the presumption would be that the caseworker "made the case". Everything following that is just collections and enforcement, with the threat of civil contempt imprisonment being the power lever. At one point, maybe still today, about 1/3 of the people in county jails were there on "child support", ie civil contempt for inability or unwillingness to pay the court-ordered amounts. My observation was 99% of them were unable to pay the amounts, and not knowledgable enough to figure out the process to modify the court's orders. The judge, once the case is off his desk, is not all that aware of what goes on - it has been turned over to the enforcement boys, ie, the sheriffs.

The reason Mindy is probably right in saying that it is out of her hands is that in most, if not all, states, the collection of court-ordered child support payments is turned over to Departments of Human Services, ie, the payor is ordered to pay directly to the state department, rather than their ex. The department then disburses the dough to the ex. The dept. then keeps the accounting and the caseworker takes over the enforcement actions, relieving the ex of the burden of that work. Nice, tidy machine - just no enforcement of the visitation and custody schedules for the (usually) dads. 

Info on how it works here may be online at the NH DHS site (link posted way back in this thread) and at the respecive site in California.

[Raineyrocks]

This might be a helpful link and at the bottom it has the rules for different states.


http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/family/childenf/enforce.htm

[Kat Kanning]

That doesn't change the fact that if Mindy forgave the past debt, he'd be out of jail.  It wouldn't change the current amount they'd want.

[John Edward Mercier]

Eminent Domain does not applying in this case...
NH Constitution is specifically eminent domain usage.

[Raineyrocks]

That doesn't change the fact that if Mindy forgave the past debt, he'd be out of jail.  It wouldn't change the current amount they'd want.

I don't know that much about this, I'm guessing Mindy lives in another state so is that what state laws they're using for this?  I looked deeper into the link I put up here and it really wasn't that helpful, I thought it would be, sorry.

[KBCraig]

I know that Russell's mom has been regularly checking in on the forum (as recently as a few hours ago). I don't know if she's reading this thread, or just responding to PMs.

If she feels comfortable doing so, it would be nice if she would add her thoughts to this thread.

[John Edward Mercier]

That doesn't change the fact that if Mindy forgave the past debt, he'd be out of jail.  It wouldn't change the current amount they'd want.

I don't know that much about this, I'm guessing Mindy lives in another state so is that what state laws they're using for this?  I looked deeper into the link I put up here and it really wasn't that helpful, I thought it would be, sorry.

I think from what Kat has posted its a civil issue... with the only criminal charge being contempt of court order.
The NH warrant would be issued under the US Constitution Article 4 Section 1. I'm still a little fuzzy whether Amendment VII or Amendment XI would apply.

[stampede8]

 as I remember how it happened. 
   I just got through going back and reading Mindy's post to you all. So I am more than a little peeved. You see to get away with this robbery of Russell's Children and Russell possessions and income, Mindy had to steel some thing else from Russell, His Good Name. By that I mean his reputation. So in a few short weeks she went from telling the couples in her and Russells accountability Groups that they were leading, that her husband was a wonderful family leader and father, to telling people she and the kids were in danger. Fortunately most of her friends did not believe her. However that never stopped her from continuing to distroy Russells reputation.
    As It is with Russell now in many of his political thoughts, it is so with his Christian thoughts. A Pastor married Russell and Mindy. They were bound by God. Mindy well knows that Russell would never let a judge have authority over his marriage. Russell would never recognize or give validity to the banter of lawyers before a judge as a way of dissolving what they have no business even butting into. Plainly, Russell put up no fight in court, never showed up, never responded by mail, never sought representation, Russell However sought the help of Pastors, Christian counselors, his folks, Mindy's folks, other family members and for 5 years never gave up hope that his family and his marriage would be repaired even after Mindy and the Victorville D.A. made him a criminal.
    Make no mistake Mindy told the authorities on purpose that Russell had not given her money during the first two years they were separated. During that whole time she and Russell still shared the checking account.
    Russell and I met at work at Mcwelco Products here in California. Russell was our accountant and a newlywed and he loved his wife very much. Mindy was Russells first kiss, and it nearly destroyed him to go through what Mindy put him through. I count his good recovery to his present wife Kat, who has brought him great peace and unfailing love. As for me I am much older than Russell. I have been married for 30 years and have 6 daughters. All of whom Russell consider themselves as Russells friends and miss him. Love Jay