Might God damn America?

[watershed]

If the world around us is connected by similar energy sources, the seasons, plant and animal life, and the behavior to the response of such, then it is clear we have been created by the same life force...Mother Nature or God. 

I am a rather simple man in terms of my educational and religious background, but have spent most of my life observing and contemplating life itself. I know of survival and hard work. I know of dedication and love. I know how to coexist and resist. I know of beauty and passion, creativity and my artistic abilities. Whether these are virtues given to me by God, or developed myself, I shall not bow to a man who claims authority on my spirituality.

If God is so loving and forgiving, why shall so many kill or die in his name??  

[dalebert]

Man's brain defies evolution in that, even at this stage in man's evolution he only uses less than 10% of it.

That's a myth. We actually have pretty ways of measuring brain activity now. If you take a snapshot of someone's brain activity at some point in time, we may only be using 10% at that point. However, they find that by having people engage in different activities and kinds of thinking, the other parts of the brain start to light up. We use the brain pretty thoroughly actually; just not all parts all the time.

[dalebert]

I don't, however, see any need whatsoever to open that can of worms.

2nded. I agree- the reason you so little talk here about the differences in beliefs is because we're all so very tolerant of others. The religious people here certainly aren't out to impose their beliefs on anyone or vice versa, and they're not constantly challenging each other's beliefs either, so there's no need to argue. It makes for a rather pleasant forum which is meant to be about action rather than debating. Of course we talk about silly stuph too but that just keeps things interesting. 

[Caleb]

Plus ... there just isn't much use trying to waste my precious time on all you hellbound heathen. You've reserved your bed in hell by rejecting your maker, and now you can lie in it ...   

[Vitruvian]

Selectively Atheistic Christians

[Caleb]

I'm sorry, Vitruvian. I should have been more precise. "going to hell for rejecting the true God, Jesus Christ" 

Now, this is a little scientific, but it can actually be mathematically proven that Christianity is the true religion. You'll probably need an advanced mathematics degree, or at least a strong calculus background, to understand this equation, but here it is:

     1 Cross + 3 nails = 4givn 

[David]

Selectively Atheistic Christians

I can't put my finger on it, but I think your math is wrong, ...or something.   

[Kat Kanning]

Selectively Atheistic Christians

Wow, we're more alike than different 

[Raineyrocks]

I have been trolling here regularly for quite a while, and I love the enthusiasm and energy that all of you seem to have, but there seems to be a re-occurring theme that troubles me about our future.  While there are many who profess to not have a belief in a Creator, there are very few that openly profess to have one.  Is this because there really is no one here with that belief, or is it because you are ashamed of your belief and keep it to yourselves?

A belief in a Creator is not the same thing at all as religion.  I believe in a Creator and I believe in the Scriptures much the same way as past civilizations told and passed down stories which were all based in truth.  The key is always in the interpretation.

Now let me get to my point.  It is a very simple thing to prove the existence of a Creator based upon today's science.  Let's start with evolution.  Species evolve through accident and necessity.  A trait accidentally appears in the course of evolution,  but that trait takes hold in the species only if it becomes necessary to some benefit in the species through natural selection. 

Man could not have evolved through natural selection but could only have been created specifically and deliberately.  For proof of this I give you man's brain.  Man's brain defies evolution in that, even at this stage in man's evolution he only uses less than 10% of it.  Therefore, there is not now and never was a necessity for its size and capacity, at least not yet.  So how and why did it become the dominant trait for all manki9nd through the current law of evolution?

As for God damning America,  I think that everything is going along exactly as planned.

http://freewebs.com/spiderbiterevelations/

I'm confused about the evolution thing you wrote, sorry it's hard for me to "get" certain things unless they are put in such a way that it clicks in my brain.

However the first part of your post is what I'd like to comment on if I had a real strong belief I hope that I would never be ashamed to speak/write about it but a lot of times I just wonder about things.

I believe in a creator and the name God is fine with me but my real issue is with religion and the bible.  I feel God, I pray and do feel a presence even though I hope my prayers get answered I don't expect them to and sometimes that makes me sad.  The reason I don't expect them to is because I don't think God really gets involved in everything in the world like some people may believe otherwise if I knew he did get involved in everything I don't think I would like him very much.  One of the examples that I have is this one: If Jane Doe has this baby and the baby is dying and she's let's say a devout christian so she's praying, her family, her church, etc and the baby dies.  The you have another Jane Doe #2 who is doing exactly what the 1st Jane Doe did, prayer, church, everything identical and her baby lives.  So you have people, (christians I'll say to stay on track), tell Jane Doe #1 "we don't understand God's reasons but we must have faith, blah, blah, faith talk".   Then Jane Doe #2 these christians are saying, "praise the lord, see he does answer prayers, blah, blah, religious celebration time."   I don't get it?

I have a belief in destiny, what will be will be, when it's our time and stuff like that but I don't think someone's in charge of that destiny it just "is".  I believe in karma, "what goes around , comes around".   I think maybe God gave all of us this world, the wonders, food and stuff like that but then kept out of it to a point.  Like I can pray and maybe he does answer them but I'm not sure because if I was Jane Doe #2, and knew about Jane Doe #1, how could I be happy and feel right about what happened?  We're my prayers better than hers, no, so what the heck happened?

It's hard for me to feel that God is 100% out of things that happen here but I just don't think it's as much as people think.  I thank God when I find an injured animal or bug that I can help.  I thank him for giving me the chance to help.

The bible is so violent, the Old Testament, it's hard to conceive that God and Jesus could be one in the same unless God is a schizo, (sp?).    It's like the bible says, be good, don't kill, okay now go attack and take the young girls from the village for your own, etc.  Also killing lambs?  It really gets to me why would God create lambs and tell people to kill them so he can forgive their sins? I know the whole everybody had to do that until Jesus made his blood sacrifice, but I don't buy it.  He puts Abraham through a bunch of shit about sacrificing his own son to test Abe's faith then says, "nah Abe just keeping you in line, buddy."  If he can read hearts he would have had no need to do that to Abraham.

As far as God never gives us more than we can handle, sorry I think that's bullshit too.  I watched this show about real crimes and this 7 year old girl was raped and murdered, her mother couldn't handle it and killed herself.  Okay so now that theory is out of the window.

Now let's get into who really decided to put the 66 books into the King James version, google it if you want because I can't remember, also the catholic bible has what is it 6 additional books?  There are more scrolls than we will probably ever know about.

I like one thing out of the bible and that is Jesus's phrase, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."   The bible has been tampered with to manipulate us, (my opinion), religions are a "fear based" form of control and I don't feel like spending an eternity singing at God's feet either, it sounds boring.  I've known many christians that feel differently like it would be their honor to sing to God forever, but I don't feel that way.

I don't know what happens to us when we die. I've had some paranormal stuff happen to me so other dimensions aren't out of my picture as possible.  If you ever want to read my paranormal events I guess you could search the forum.

Anyways I hope you didn't take my post as attacking or anything I think your post was cool and just participated in it.

[grasshopper]

  Ok, molech or Baal, the "cow god" was a prominent god in anchient times worship was followed by orgies and hedonistic practices/child sacrifices ect.ect...  If you can follow history, you'll see that everytime a people turns away from good to bad, helping people, to selfishness, and they start to kill their children (making them pass through to molek) or human sacrifice, as "some" would call abortion (not the doers of the deed but the people that built the clinics and push it politicly) some would say God will punish those people.
here:  Jeremiah 32:31
For this city hath been to me as a provocation of mine anger and of my fury from the day that they built it even unto this day; that I should remove it from before my face,
32 Because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.
34 But they set their abominations in the house, which is called by my name, to defile it.
35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
   Interesting, that when we are self obsorbed, selfish, and care not for others, we are at risk of getting our asses kicked by a more focoused force, either Muslums who don't want their daughters to be whores or sluts and their children to be scumbbags or Catholics from South America (latinos) as well as Athiests/communist from Europe. (no, not athiests that just don't believe but the ones who like to attack Christians for fun, see Stalin, Hitler)
  Ok, here is my point.  God is going to kick our collective asses.  We are guilty of turning from him, not keeping the sabbath, mocking him, ignoring his commandments.  We deserve everything we're going to get. 
   Now, as a Christian who has done some stupid things, yes abortion, killed my Daughter Emmily, 3 months conceived, I had acted in a hedonistic way (sort of) when I was younger.  I got mad at God and turned from him and did some bad things until 10 years ago and I still fight every day to not do certain things.  I hated, I coveted, I slept around with chicks who were "off limits". (no, not incest)   
   Ok, again, my point?  I dont do these things, these things are called sin.  I backslide sometimes but most of the time i give it to Jesus and he gives me strength to NOT do stupid things.
   I wish I could give you people my experiences, my stories and have you see them as I do.  I am already dead, dead as a rotted skunk on the side of the road in summer.  All bloated with ....... where was I?   Oh ya.  I am already dead and reborn in Jesus, in God.  I'm not afraid to die, get tortured, have my body parts cut off ect.ect..  I know where my sole is going.  I am not perfect, I know this but I try to do as God wants.  Do I go to church?  No.  I should so I can be strengthened by the other saints so it will be easier to do good and not screw up but I just read the good book.  I believe in Jess ad he has given me FAITH.
  Are we going to get Gods justice?  Yes.  This being said, I'd still defend myself and others, organise for the common defence and I'd still do violance to help others, to stop a crime, to help a little old lady.  We have a responcibility to protect our society and our ways.  Freedom is given to us by God himself.
  What says you?

[JohninRI]

Wow, there is an awful lot to respond to. I just got home and I have to go out tonight but when I get home I promise that I will spend some time with it.

I'm looking forward to it.

John

[Jacobus]

The bible is so violent, the Old Testament, it's hard to conceive that God and Jesus could be one in the same unless God is a schizo, (sp?).    It's like the bible says, be good, don't kill, okay now go attack and take the young girls from the village for your own, etc.  Also killing lambs?  It really gets to me why would God create lambs and tell people to kill them so he can forgive their sins?

I don't care so much for most of the Bible either. 

A few years ago I tried to read the New Testament, and I was liking some of what Jesus was saying, though I did not understand much of it.  But what really turned me off was all of the extra stuff thrown in about miracles.  Whether Jesus walked on water or not has zero relevance to my life, and it all seemed like thrown in stuff to try to convince people of his divinity.

But recently I read "The Gospel in Brief" by Tolstoy, and he did the hard work for me.  He took the books and wove them together into one story, and he left out all of the extra stuff about miracles and the resurrection, or the family line of Jesus.  What was left was the teachings of Jesus presented in a clear, accessible way.  I understand more now, and I heartily recommend this book. 

[Raineyrocks]

The bible is so violent, the Old Testament, it's hard to conceive that God and Jesus could be one in the same unless God is a schizo, (sp?).    It's like the bible says, be good, don't kill, okay now go attack and take the young girls from the village for your own, etc.  Also killing lambs?  It really gets to me why would God create lambs and tell people to kill them so he can forgive their sins?

I don't care so much for most of the Bible either. 

A few years ago I tried to read the New Testament, and I was liking some of what Jesus was saying, though I did not understand much of it.  But what really turned me off was all of the extra stuff thrown in about miracles.  Whether Jesus walked on water or not has zero relevance to my life, and it all seemed like thrown in stuff to try to convince people of his divinity.

But recently I read "The Gospel in Brief" by Tolstoy, and he did the hard work for me.  He took the books and wove them together into one story, and he left out all of the extra stuff about miracles and the resurrection, or the family line of Jesus.  What was left was the teachings of Jesus presented in a clear, accessible way.  I understand more now, and I heartily recommend this book. 

That sounds like a pretty interesting book, I'll have to check it out, thanks!   You know what I was just thinking; in the book of Revelations there is a phrase in there that states, "those who take away or add to these holy scriptures I will add plagues and shit to them."  Sorry for my poor translation but it is something just like that so if the bible is really real this Tolstoy guy could be in some major shit even though it sounds like he's trying to help people.  The bible just screws people in so many ways it isn't funny, doesn't it?

[JohninRI]

I believe in a creator and the name God is fine with me but my real issue is with religion and the bible.  I feel God, I pray and do feel a presence even though I hope my prayers get answered I don't expect them to and sometimes that makes me sad.  The reason I don't expect them to is because I don't think God really gets involved in everything in the world like some people may believe otherwise if I knew he did get involved in everything I don't think I would like him very much. 

My wife and I have many, many, cats. and we have many different relationships with them.  Some watch us from a distance and we have very little contact with them.  Others have periods when they want us to hug and love them and other periods when they want to be completely unto themselves.  And there are some that want to be so close to us that they actually breath our breath in when we exhale.  These are the ones that get the most attention.  Our relationship with, I''ll say God - which is a title and not a name - is much the same way.  Those which are the closest get the most attention.  We have free will which was His greatest gift to us.  And He respects our free will choices.

One of the examples that I have is this one: If Jane Doe has this baby and the baby is dying and she's let's say a devout christian so she's praying, her family, her church, etc and the baby dies.  The you have another Jane Doe #2 who is doing exactly what the 1st Jane Doe did, prayer, church, everything identical and her baby lives.  So you have people, (christians I'll say to stay on track), tell Jane Doe #1 "we don't understand God's reasons but we must have faith, blah, blah, faith talk".   Then Jane Doe #2 these christians are saying, "praise the lord, see he does answer prayers, blah, blah, religious celebration time."   I don't get it?

Because He respects our free will choices so much, he has to allow misfortune to happen equally and arbitrarily to all.  Otherwise, there would be no free will just path of least resistance.  If we knew that if we believed a certain thing that we would be spared misfortune it would be a no brainer for most everyone, so where's the free will in that.  He wants us to question Him, He wants us to torment over the way things are.  And He wants that so that we come to a free will choice to change things.

I have a belief in destiny, what will be will be, when it's our time and stuff like that but I don't think someone's in charge of that destiny it just "is".  I believe in karma, "what goes around , comes around".   I think maybe God gave all of us this world, the wonders, food and stuff like that but then kept out of it to a point.  Like I can pray and maybe he does answer them but I'm not sure because if I was Jane Doe #2, and knew about Jane Doe #1, how could I be happy and feel right about what happened?  We're my prayers better than hers, no, so what the heck happened?

Who or what established this destiny for you?  If no one or no thing then it is not destiny, it is happenstance.  Destiny implies some sort of plan or path which we will always arrive at a specific point in time.

Karma is probably a law of nature, but not because what goes around comes around because it doesn't always.  It is more because everything affects everything else.  Bad thing affect karma adversely and good things affect karma positively.  But happenstance is always a wild card which can trump karma.

As to why some prayers work and others do not, I have no idea.  Only He knows a soul's destiny.

It's hard for me to feel that God is 100% out of things that happen here but I just don't think it's as much as people think.  I thank God when I find an injured animal or bug that I can help.  I thank him for giving me the chance to help.

You are very blessed that you even see the injured animal or bug and  very blessed that you even see the chance to help.  How many of us are too wrapped up in our own lives that we become blind to the opportunities which you actively seek out? 

As for His presence, again it depends on how actively you have sought Him out.  I can tell you that I almost always feel His presence around me and my family.  That doesn't mean that we don't have hard times.  It sort of means that during those hard times we know that we will get through them.

The bible is so violent, the Old Testament, it's hard to conceive that God and Jesus could be one in the same unless God is a schizo, (sp?).    It's like the bible says, be good, don't kill, okay now go attack and take the young girls from the village for your own, etc.  Also killing lambs?  It really gets to me why would God create lambs and tell people to kill them so he can forgive their sins? I know the whole everybody had to do that until Jesus made his blood sacrifice, but I don't buy it.  He puts Abraham through a bunch of shit about sacrificing his own son to test Abe's faith then says, "nah Abe just keeping you in line, buddy."  If he can read hearts he would have had no need to do that to Abraham.

We are His children.  He has a Father's resp[/quote]onsibility to raise us to the best of our potential.  Children don't learn as much or at the same rate as young adults.  The Bible is a story of Man's growth.  It begins its stories with man as children fighting over possessions, sibling rivalry, power and parent's love.  When you get to the point where you realize that it's barbaric you've mastered the lesson and ready to proceed further with your education.

The Creator and Jesus, or Yahshua, which is more comfortable for me, are not one and the same.  Just think about the prayer He taught us.  "Our Father... "  What about that is unclear?  The Creator is His Father as well as yours and mine.  As for the rest of the paragraph, they are just stories based in truth and designed to educate us.

As far as God never gives us more than we can handle, sorry I think that's bullshit too.  I watched this show about real crimes and this 7 year old girl was raped and murdered, her mother couldn't handle it and killed herself.  Okay so now that theory is out of the window.

Now let's get into who really decided to put the 66 books into the King James version, google it if you want because I can't remember, also the catholic bible has what is it 6 additional books?  There are more scrolls than we will probably ever know about.

First of all, there is no such thing as death, there is only loss.  All life is reincarnated!  The mother felt the loss of the child, then the extended family felt the loss of them both.  But in reality after the Mother's "death" the mother and the daughter were together and all traces of what happened to them was forgotten.  But not for the extended family.  Now let's go one step further, the extended family felt the loss, but people who did not know the girl or the mother did not feel the loss, only shock and outrage.

Don't you think it possible that God put it into the mind of whomever decided on the number of books what decision that person should make?  I sure do!  As for specific religions, I have no use for any of them because they are all false and the worst of them is Catholicism.  If anyone is connected to a modern day Christian religion then they are not Christians, they are Pauline Christians, or Paulists.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/paul/paul.htm

Paul was the first usurper of the Messiah's message.

I like one thing out of the bible and that is Jesus's phrase, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."   The bible has been tampered with to manipulate us, (my opinion), religions are a "fear based" form of control and I don't feel like spending an eternity singing at God's feet either, it sounds boring.  I've known many christians that feel differently like it would be their honor to sing to God forever, but I don't feel that way.

The Messiah had a very simple message which Saul the Roman completely destroyed and bastardized.  Love the Father, Love one another, hold all things in common, and look forward to reincarnation and the good times ahead. 

That's about it for tonight.
Good night raineyrocks

Grasshopper,  I'll post to you tomorrow.  Good night

[JohninRI]

Wow Grasshopper.

I'm truly sorry that you have had to go through all that, but what you have gone through is exactly why we have been wondering for these past 2000 years.  Everything that we have done to each other, God knew we would do.  It's so simple.  Everything repeats itself over and over again but in either smaller or larger circles.  To understand where man is today we need not look any further than to our young children.  They have days when they are absolute monsters and other days when they are absolute angels.  We expect that of them and we accept it.  God sees us the very same way.  We are babies in his eyes and he wants us to go through all of our phases of childhood, the good times and the bad, so that we can mature.  Now a larger circle in the very same vain is this, Consider that one day in a child's life is one lifetime in the lifetimes of our souls.  The odd bad day or the odd bad lifetime is unimportant to God as long as it remains the odd bad something or other.  However, when it becomes a regular occurrence, just as in childhood, then it becomes a problem for the parent and if it continues to worsen, then the possibility is that the child will have to be removed from playing with the other children.  (ie: separating the wheat)

Now for something more serious.  I have found that children who act up usually do so as a cry for attention; and a good parent will always recognize that cry and respond, but only when the child has calmed down and is receptive..   Make yourself receptive!

Your Father loves you no matter what you may have done.  I remind you of the last words of the Messiah.  "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do."   Would you hold something a three month old child did against him or her for their whole life?  Of course not, and neither would your Father in Heaven.

Also, Freedom and Free Will are not the same thing.  Freedom is an illusion subjective and subordinate to a set of circumstances.  Free will is a gift from God.