House backs pot decriminalization

[KBCraig]

And, just to set the record straight - Guinta did not threaten Scannell's job....nor does he have the authority to fire him......

When the mayor, who is president of the school board, publicly calls for a school employee's resignation, I consider it threatening.

It would only be threatening if he could act on it - which he cannot.

Tammy, he can act on it -- and did so by issuing this statement!

He can't personally fire Scannell, but the people who can do so are very aware of that the president of the school board wants this employee gone.

I know you're torn right now about Guinta. This is the one "aw shit" that pretty much wipes away any "attaboys" he ever earned.

[Caleb]

with all due respect, it doesn't get much more disrespectful than ftl's discussion of jesse's current situation. i almost stopped amping over that.

Considering we have not yet discussed Jesse's situation on the air (we're waiting for his dad to be ready to call in), you must be referring to the thread posted by BBS participants.   Thank you for not punishing me for the callousness of some individuals.   

well, it wouldn't have been intended to "punish" you. i hardly ever visit your forum, so the caliber of the discussion was a shock to me. and my initial reaction was, "oh ... this is the mindset of the people who are being attracted to the show, huh"

but you're right. a few horrible apples are not the standard by which to judge your effectiveness.  i know plenty of absolutely wonderful people who listen to and benefit from your show.

[FTL_Ian]

A supermajority of our listeners will never set foot in our forum, so there's no way to ever know the quality of individual we are attracting.   

[Landon Jeffery]

A supermajority of our listeners will never set foot in our forum, so there's no way to ever know the quality of individual we are attracting.  

I am one of the superminority that found this forum through FTL.  But Ian is right that there is a huge diverse crowd of people attracted to the show and a few of which I would consider "bad apples".

[Dave Ridley]

hey what's all this raggin on ian's forum...

if it weren't for the FTL forum i never would have learned the term "fucktard"
LOL  seriously it's a great forum

[ReverendRyan]

if it weren't for the FTL forum i never would have learned the term "fucktard"

Study time for Dada!
Define the following words:
Asshat
Window Licker
Cunt Turd
Cum Bucket

Extra Credit:
Santorum

[ancapagency]

Between Guinta stabbing the Porcupines and RLC folks in the back with the Giuliani endorsement, and this latest of insults, I'm hoping the political activists among us have learned their lesson--don't trust a politician.  If someone is running who isn't in our group, make sure they deserve our support, and if they do stab us in the back, make sure they realize we'll do everything we can to make sure they are never elected again.

The upcoming reputation rating site will be of great use in this.

Remember--you will not be held responsible for the actions of your enemies.  However, you WILL be held responsible for the actions of your allies.  Don't trust the established politicians who merely observe the way the wind is blowing and wish to jump on our band wagon.  Make them work for it, make them realize that we hold our principles (and among them, agreements) sacred, and make them realize that stabbing us in the back gets them moved to the active list of those politicians who are a priority to put out on the street. Tell them that unlike the average voters, we are activists, and we do have long memories. 

Hell, I'm still pissed off at George Washington--and holding a grudge over the Whiskey Rebellion in particular. 

[KBCraig]

Hell, I'm still pissed off at George Washington--and holding a grudge over the Whiskey Rebellion in particular.

Thank you. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who understands that presidential abuse of the Constitution didn't start with Lincoln.

[ny2nh]

He can't personally fire Scannell, but the people who can do so are very aware of that the president of the school board wants this employee gone.

I know you're torn right now about Guinta. This is the one "aw shit" that pretty much wipes away any "attaboys" he ever earned.

Actually, I think pretty much every knew that Guinta wanted Scannell gone before this....they've butted heads before.

And, yes, I am torn. I know Frank pretty well - and I just cannot get why he did this - it really doesn't fit with him.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Stick a fork in him. He's done in this group!

[ny2nh]

Between Guinta stabbing the Porcupines and RLC folks in the back with the Giuliani endorsement, and this latest of insults, I'm hoping the political activists among us have learned their lesson--don't trust a politician.  If someone is running who isn't in our group, make sure they deserve our support, and if they do stab us in the back, make sure they realize we'll do everything we can to make sure they are never elected again.

The upcoming reputation rating site will be of great use in this.

Remember--you will not be held responsible for the actions of your enemies.  However, you WILL be held responsible for the actions of your allies.  Don't trust the established politicians who merely observe the way the wind is blowing and wish to jump on our band wagon.  Make them work for it, make them realize that we hold our principles (and among them, agreements) sacred, and make them realize that stabbing us in the back gets them moved to the active list of those politicians who are a priority to put out on the street. Tell them that unlike the average voters, we are activists, and we do have long memories. 

Hell, I'm still pissed off at George Washington--and holding a grudge over the Whiskey Rebellion in particular. 

I still don't see how Guinta endorsing Guiliani was a stab in the back. He never said he would endorse Ron Paul or that he wouldn't endorse someone else. You're inferring that there was some sort of agreement - when there was no such thing.

If you're holding out for "someone in our group" to be viable for mayor or governor....honestly, you have a long, long wait. Reality is that there are only a handful of people to choose from in either position. No one is going to be a perfect candidate. This instance is highly annoying, but I still think he's a good person who is willing to listen to just about anything anyone has to say...."our group" included. Had we had any idea that he would take this position, Matt could have probably gotten his ear and perhaps talked with him.

I do want to say this - and it is not from your post in any way - but I've read it many times since last November.....

There seem to be a lot of "our group" who claim to have campaigned for Frank - some a real lot - last fall. There were many who did help Frank - sometimes by working with Phil and I on Phil's campaign. I have a pretty sharp memory - I know who came to our sign waves, who came to our lit drops, those who wrote checks or made very generous donations, and those who stood at the polls, etc. Those that helped Phil were indirectly helping Frank....and it was much appreciated. On the Guinta side, I think I knew who was helping out there as well. It is astonishing to read when someone writes that they helped elect Frank or campaigned for him - when I don't even remember them helping Phil. If you helped, that's one thing, but it really irks me when people say they did something that they did not. If they think it somehow garners them some clout, it doesn't because I am sure I am not the only one who remembers who was there and who wasn't. To those of you who were - I thanked you then and I'll thank you again.

[Dave Ridley]

even tho i'm one of the guys holding his feet to the fire i agree with ny2nc that guinta was probably the least-bad available mayoral candidate. touch base with kate richards for the details on that line of thinking. I trust her judgment.   

Ideally these politicians should know in advance how little it takes to piss us off so they think twice.....Guinta's fall, if it comes to that, won't necessarily be a pro liberty outcome, but if we had been able to keep him from doing this before hand that would have been very pro freedom.

[ancapagency]

Remember--you will not be held responsible for the actions of your enemies.  However, you WILL be held responsible for the actions of your allies.

I still don't see how Guinta endorsing Guiliani was a stab in the back. He never said he would endorse Ron Paul or that he wouldn't endorse someone else. You're inferring that there was some sort of agreement - when there was no such thing.

Oh, I knew (and said at the time to a few folks) that Guinta wasn't going to endorse Ron Paul--I could tell by how he weaseled at the MVP meeting when he was asked.  But he answered in such a way as to lead the Porcupines to believe that it was a possibility, because he knew he wouldn't get the support he needed if he answered honestly.  I'm not inferring an agreement--I'm inferring deceit.  I didn't say he lied--and if I had meant that, I would have said it explicitly.  What he did was use the Porcupines by deceiving them, knowing at the time that he wasn't going to endorse Paul, and I suspect he already knew he was going to endorse Giuliani, but was unwilling to do so until he got maximum use out of the Porcupines because he knew (I'm sure he was advised by people who knew, that is) they wouldn't work for him if he endorsed such an obvious fascist up front.  He waited until after the election, then turned around and stabbed the Porcupines who worked for him in the back.

If you're holding out for "someone in our group" to be viable for mayor or governor....honestly, you have a long, long wait. Reality is that there are only a handful of people to choose from in either position. No one is going to be a perfect candidate.

Oh, I'm not waiting for that.  I'm a non-voter these days.  I'll lend a hand occasionally in these political actions, but I never expect much from them.  So I work with the NHLA, I'll endorse various candidates from time to time for those who are voters, I'll pass out some lit, and so forth.  But I reserve the majority of my activism for other areas.  But I hate to see our politically active people getting used and losing ground.  Although I suspect that you're wrong about how quickly some Porcupines may become "viable."  And I don't require anyone to be the perfect candidate, but I do require they be at least somewhat on the same friggin' page.  And again I say:  Remember--you will not be held responsible for the actions of your enemies.  However, you WILL be held responsible for the actions of your allies.

This instance is highly annoying, but I still think he's a good person who is willing to listen to just about anything anyone has to say...."our group" included. Had we had any idea that he would take this position, Matt could have probably gotten his ear and perhaps talked with him.

I'm sure you're wrong on this one.  Oh, I'm sure that you're right that he's willing to listen to (almost) anyone.  I'm sure he's very interested in people.  But that's not necessarily a good thing.  Fleas and ticks are interested in dogs.  But I seriously doubt he's a good person.  He's a professional politician, he's obviously an "ends justifies the means" type, he's a user and deceiver, and he is power hungry.  I realize all that was redundant, but nonetheless...

...If you helped, that's one thing, but it really irks me when people say they did something that they did not. If they think it somehow garners them some clout, it doesn't because I am sure I am not the only one who remembers who was there and who wasn't.

I understand your irritation with that sort of thing, but I suspect you're at least to some extent overlooking the fact that there are more ways than those to which you referred to help with a campaign.  One example is simply the widespread personal endorsement.  A lot of folks with the MVP we're out there telling people Guinta was a good guy, that he could be trusted to do the right thing--the pro-freedom thing.  They put the trust and respect people had for their word on the line--and that hurt them when Guinta went on to pull the typical politician shit.  This accounts (IMO) for more of the anger than the fact that he is just a typical politician--the fact that people who pride themselves in the value and honor of their word were used and thus had some of the respect they'd worked for destroyed.  As for myself, I never endorsed Guinta, and I freely admit I never worked for him in any way.  I was impressed that he came to the MVP meeting and was savvy enough to look for help from the MVP, but I suspect that was because he had people giving him advice who knew the MVP, and knew that the MVP could be used in this fashion, but who underestimate the backlash that would come--or believe they can somehow neutralize the MVP before the backlash comes.  But as I said, I recognized him for what he was from day one, and I've been burned before. 

I suspect Guinta's crowd seriously underestimates the real level of political experience in the FSP because the members are idealists and so many are Libertarians.  That is a huge strategic mistake on their part.  Just to use myself as an example (and remember, I'm a NON-POLITICAL activist at this time):  I'm a past candidate for various offices from City Council to US House.  I'm the former chair of at least one government commission, and have been a member of others.  I'm the former chair of Libertarian Party Affiliates in at least two states (NH isn't one of them), as well as other political action groups that were not explicitly affiliated with the LP.  I've been an active member of so many political action groups I can't remember them all.  I'd be afraid to calculate the amount of money I've given to the political groups I've been involved with in some fashion over the years--I'm a single guy with inexpensive habits and no debts for the most part, so I have plowed significant portions of my income at times into these groups. I'm sure I'm forgetting significant portions of my political resume right now, but no big deal.  And all this is just from the time I switched to the LP--I had a long involvement with the Republicans before that (including Republicans Abroad when I was in the Army and stationed overseas--which was for a good bit of the 1990s). 

And--now pay close attention to this part-- I haven't been all that politically active compared to a good portion of the MVP.  Hell, in my house alone, we've got several past congressional candidates, and I couldn't even begin to tabulate the local political experience.  We've got at least one former State LP Chair (again, not NH), and I'm sure several lesser affiliate chairs and so forth.  And do not mistake a lack of victories for a lack of experience.  Look at how much press the FSP has garnered, and how much effect it's had, with only 500 members spread across the state, and despite the press bias against giving anything that isn't part of the two party system any attention.  And more people are moving here every week.

Do not underestimate the resolve, nor the commitment of the Porcupines--the folks here were the top activists elsewhere in the country, and they PICKED UP THEIR ENTIRE LIVES AND MOVED FOR AN IDEA.  They moved across the entire country--many of them (like myself) hating the cold and snow, and moving far from friends and family.  Many of them gave up high paying jobs to come to NH and live on a shoestring while they engage in activism. Most of them left significant portions of their possessions to come here--and many left almost everything behind, and didn't look back.  I could continue, but I won't bother.

Do not mistake the debate and wrangling within the Porcupine Community for schism--it's not.  Oh, we have many disagreements and personality conflicts and so forth, but don't be fooled--we are the distilled activists of the Freedom Movement from across the country--and even to some extent, the world.  And the folks who are here now are the ones who weren't even willing to wait for the rest of the people who were supposed to join and move.  We are the glass-eaters. 

I'm going to enjoy the looks of disbelief and horror and incomprehension on the faces of the politicians when they're permanently out of office.  The fact that I've provided this sort of warning--now and to some extent in the past--will only make their consistent incompetent miscalculation all the sweeter for me.  But I have an over-developed sense of vengeance, and prefer to see my enemies alive and suffering, rather than dead and at peace.  But I never claimed to be a nice person--merely a very smart one who believes in acting according to objective moral principles.  But I digress.

I'm looking forward to the coming ride--it's gonna be a blast.

[Free libertarian]

Mayor Guinta...he supported Guliani and said what he said about Scannell...I don't need to know any more about him...somebody correct me if I'm using the term incorrectly, but doesn't that make him an
"ass hat"?  If that's the wrong use of ass hat...please substitute "douchebag".

[ny2nh]

Oh, I knew (and said at the time to a few folks) that Guinta wasn't going to endorse Ron Paul--I could tell by how he weaseled at the MVP meeting when he was asked.  But he answered in such a way as to lead the Porcupines to believe that it was a possibility, because he knew he wouldn't get the support he needed if he answered honestly.  I'm not inferring an agreement--I'm inferring deceit.  I didn't say he lied--and if I had meant that, I would have said it explicitly.  What he did was use the Porcupines by deceiving them, knowing at the time that he wasn't going to endorse Paul, and I suspect he already knew he was going to endorse Giuliani, but was unwilling to do so until he got maximum use out of the Porcupines because he knew (I'm sure he was advised by people who knew, that is) they wouldn't work for him if he endorsed such an obvious fascist up front.  He waited until after the election, then turned around and stabbed the Porcupines who worked for him in the back.

Sorry - have to wholeheartedly disagree with you. I was there the day Guinta spoke with the MVP. He hardly weaseled out of anything and her most definitely didn't say anything that should have lead anyone to believe that he was leaning toward RP...or anyone else for that matter. Rob asked him if he would endorse RP and Frank said he wasn't endorsing anyone until after the election (his) and that he would be welcome any candidate who wanted to talk with him when they were in Manchester. I can't see how that in any way would make someone think he was going to endorse RP.

As far as getting maximum use out of Porcupines, again we're back to who actually did what. There was a certain group that was there throughout the campaign - again primarily helping Phil - and helping Frank secondarily.

This instance is highly annoying, but I still think he's a good person who is willing to listen to just about anything anyone has to say...."our group" included. Had we had any idea that he would take this position, Matt could have probably gotten his ear and perhaps talked with him.

I'm sure you're wrong on this one.  Oh, I'm sure that you're right that he's willing to listen to (almost) anyone.  I'm sure he's very interested in people.  But that's not necessarily a good thing.  Fleas and ticks are interested in dogs.  But I seriously doubt he's a good person.  He's a professional politician, he's obviously an "ends justifies the means" type, he's a user and deceiver, and he is power hungry.  I realize all that was redundant, but nonetheless...

I know Frank quite well - and while I have my own disagreements with him on some issues - I know him as a person. He's not just a politician. Is he a politician - of course. Reality is that you have to be to be elected. Is he one of the power-hungry, non-principled types - no. Is he wrong IMO on this - yes. Is he willing to talk to people to hear their point of view about this - yes.

I was impressed that he came to the MVP meeting and was savvy enough to look for help from the MVP, but I suspect that was because he had people giving him advice who knew the MVP, and knew that the MVP could be used in this fashion, but who underestimate the backlash that would come--or believe they can somehow neutralize the MVP before the backlash comes.

Welcome to the reality of getting elected and campaigns. Of course he had people giving him advice - myself being one of them. If he didn't give two shits what you guys thought, he wouldn't have come.

You very well may have political experience...as do some other.....but a large portion of the FSP are very new to this. Yes, they are idealistic - and that's fine. I'm idealistic, too. I just know I can choose to be so idealistic that I accomplish absolutely noting or I work within the system to accomplish as much as I can. Digging my heels in the sand and holding my breath gets me nowhere.

As far as the FSP getting press - yes, they have. Sometimes I think that press hurt more than helped....if you're looking beyond the actual FSP members. I'm not going to sit here and argue about that - because there are two distinct schools of thought on publicity.

Do not underestimate the resolve, nor the commitment of the Porcupines--the folks here were the top activists elsewhere in the country, and they PICKED UP THEIR ENTIRE LIVES AND MOVED FOR AN IDEA.  They moved across the entire country--many of them (like myself) hating the cold and snow, and moving far from friends and family.  Many of them gave up high paying jobs to come to NH and live on a shoestring while they engage in activism. Most of them left significant portions of their possessions to come here--and many left almost everything behind, and didn't look back.  I could continue, but I won't bother.

You know, I moved here long before the FSP even existed....for basically the same reasons. I did it without a group...I just did it. And I didn't look back either. I know other people who moved here for the same reasons.