The Omnivore's Delimma - Can't get it out of my head

[Caleb]

Rainey, I was thinking the same thing, about maybe buying more organic, free range meats, but the problem is, and he touches on this briefly in his book, is that the companies lie. They call themselves organic or "free range" but they really aren't. In a way, the sort of underground movement to add sanity to the process has been coopted. So you really don't know if you're getting what you want.

[Raineyrocks]

YOU ROCK RAINEY!  Veggie Power...YAY!

You too Scott!  Lemon Power!

[Raineyrocks]

Scott, you're the veggie genius. What can she do about anemia? I'm thinking maybe kale? Something with iron?

Thanks for asking Scott, Caleb that was so nice of you!  

[Jacobus]

A few weeks ago I decided that cows and pigs are too high up the consciousness scale to be treated as they are in production farms.  I thought that if I would be morally opposed to treating them that way myself (if I had a farm), I should not pay others to do this work.  So I considered cutting mammals out of my diet (I have less sympathy for our fowl friends).

But my wife didn't want to buy-in, and I don't want to start cooking, so we compromised.  Now we buy our meat at Whole Foods.

[Jacobus]

Rainey, I was thinking the same thing, about maybe buying more organic, free range meats, but the problem is, and he touches on this briefly in his book, is that the companies lie. They call themselves organic or "free range" but they really aren't. In a way, the sort of underground movement to add sanity to the process has been coopted. So you really don't know if you're getting what you want.

So is Whole Foods lying to me?

[Caleb]

Ok, so here's a little link that I found rainey. It'll tell you the iron sources of various types of foods. But it may be that absorption is your problem, because you said it didn't get better when you started eating meat. So you might want to try eating more oranges. The Vitamin C helps absorption of the iron. Plus, oranges are delicious.  

http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/Handouts/dietary_sources_iron.html

[Caleb]

Rainey, I was thinking the same thing, about maybe buying more organic, free range meats, but the problem is, and he touches on this briefly in his book, is that the companies lie. They call themselves organic or "free range" but they really aren't. In a way, the sort of underground movement to add sanity to the process has been coopted. So you really don't know if you're getting what you want.

So is Whole Foods lying to me?

I don't know. In my case, I decided that it was too much work to sort it all out, because there are too many wonderful non-meat foods that I like that are easy for me to prepare. Plus, I eat out a lot for convenience (bad habit, I know) but its easy for me to get a bean burrito at the local Mexican place than it is for me to try to figure it all out. I imagine there are probably independent groups that rate the various "organic" companies.  It's hard to sympathize with fish, for me, I think because they can't make any noises, so it's easy for me to rationalize eating fish, and in all honesty, I do have a fish sandwich every now and again (maybe once a week or so) but to be honest, it makes me feel bad emotionally after I do it, because I don't think that I should be so callous just because I can't hear the suffering.

[BaRbArIaN]

http://www.uncoveror.com/plants.htm

Meat may be murder, but salad may be slaughter.   Plants feel "pain" too.  Does that mean that all empathic humans should spontaneously suicide as to prevent harming other life forms?   Some people hate their own species so much they would love that.

Frankly, I would just accept your place on the food chain and have some lunch.

[Raineyrocks]

Rainey, I was thinking the same thing, about maybe buying more organic, free range meats, but the problem is, and he touches on this briefly in his book, is that the companies lie. They call themselves organic or "free range" but they really aren't. In a way, the sort of underground movement to add sanity to the process has been coopted. So you really don't know if you're getting what you want.

See, you can't trust anything anymore, can you?  I think reading this book that you read will help give me the kick in the butt that I need to go back veggie.  Do you eat cheese or organic cage free, (I know now they could be lying), eggs?   I tried to go totally vegan before and it was so hard unless you do something like the raw food diet

[Caleb]

To be honest, I can see going totally raw, (other than bread) because these fruits seem to really agree with me. My digestion has really got so much better since I switched this diet. I haven't needed any antacids even once. I do worry about getting enough protein, which is why I compensate with peanut butter and bean burritos. It helps that I don't particularly need a lot of variety in my diet. I don't get tired of something if I like it.

No, I haven't kicked the cheese habit yet. That one is going to be hard, because I love cheese with my burritos, but I have found a really great (albeit expensive) cheese substitute.

[picaro]

I fail to see the immorality of slaughtering farm animals fed from your own crops and pastures.   

Living on a farm will quickly disabuse you of anthropomorphizing animals -- no matter how many Disney films you watch.   People are too far removed from the reality of food production.   

On a farm death is not sanitized.   You feel no post-modern remorse when plucking a chicken, only the hunger in your belly.

Where is the universal ethical impetus for vegetarianism?   (excluding reasons of individual health, religious belief, taste, etc.)

Ethical vegetarianism strikes me as another post-Catholic system to absolve imagined guilt.

[Raineyrocks]

Ok, so here's a little link that I found rainey. It'll tell you the iron sources of various types of foods. But it may be that absorption is your problem, because you said it didn't get better when you started eating meat. So you might want to try eating more oranges. The Vitamin C helps absorption of the iron. Plus, oranges are delicious. 

http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/Handouts/dietary_sources_iron.html

Awesome thank you so much!  I finally went to a doctor and he has me taking 325mg of Iron with vitamin C 2 times a day.  I can't eat oranges or apples they make me gag, I hate them.  Thanks Caleb!

[picaro]

As for the idea that cattle are genetically selected by humans, that is laughable.

Selective breeding has radically altered the appearance and build of cows.   I wish I could find this old Britannica illustration of cattle breeds through the centuries. 

Some are bred for meat production, some for milk, some to survive drought conditions, some for pulling plows.

Perhaps only dog breeds are more engineered.   The idea of a "natural" cow -- untouched by human artifice is laughable.   Humans have been mucking with cow genetics for thousands of years.

[Raineyrocks]

To be honest, I can see going totally raw, (other than bread) because these fruits seem to really agree with me. My digestion has really got so much better since I switched this diet. I haven't needed any antacids even once. I do worry about getting enough protein, which is why I compensate with peanut butter and bean burritos. It helps that I don't particularly need a lot of variety in my diet. I don't get tired of something if I like it.

No, I haven't kicked the cheese habit yet. That one is going to be hard, because I love cheese with my burritos, but I have found a really great (albeit expensive) cheese substitute.

I love cheese too and I have never been able to find a good cheese substitute.  I bought rice cheese before and I had to peel it off the wrapper so I ended up with a little ball of cheese.  When I was doing more raw foods I felt great but I must admit I put organic cream cheese on my green peppers, yummy!  I like watermelons, cantaloupe, peaches and cherries, that's it for fruit.   I juiced carrots, celery and beets, that was good.

[Raineyrocks]

I fail to see the immorality of slaughtering farm animals fed from your own crops and pastures.   

Living on a farm will quickly disabuse you of anthropomorphizing animals -- no matter how many Disney films you watch.   People are too far removed from the reality of food production.   

On a farm death is not sanitized.   You feel no post-modern remorse when plucking a chicken, only the hunger in your belly.

Where is the universal ethical impetus for vegetarianism?   (excluding reasons of individual health, religious belief, taste, etc.)

Ethical vegetarianism strikes me as another post-Catholic system to absolve imagined guilt.

I'm not being sarcastic but can you please explain to me what your trying to say in smaller, simpler terms because I don't understand most of your post.