Questions for the Free State Project People

[J’raxis 270145]

Oh, I've heard of that, cases like United States of America v. $124,700...

[Caleb]

Yeah, $124,700 has been really out of control lately. Sad to say, but I saw this life of crime coming. 

[Pat K]

I new him when he was only 99,000.

[Caleb]

You're talking about Lloyd, right? 

[John Edward Mercier]

I new him when he was only 99,000.

At the rate he's been devaluing, that time is nearly once again upon us.

[watershed]

6. What if the people in New Hampshire who were there before the Free State Project got there get mad at the free state project for one reason or another?

I don't know of many natives actually knowing of the movement, so most are apathetic towards it.
Life here shouldn't be a movement but simply a lifestyle that each of us customizes to his or her wishes.

Maybe public outreach?

I'll certainly tell you that longwinded intellectual monolauges are unappealing to natives.
Most natives  live simmilar  lifestyles as the FSers, but are turned off to ALL media, politcal party rhetoric, religous guilt, and most imprtantly nosey-condescending-elitist neighbors. The values and wisdoms of intellectuals can and must be simplified in form, without losing the passion for ideals, so that people gain faith in alternatives to status quo.

[dalebert]

I wish I weren't making this up.

I think you mean "I wish I were making this up."

[dalebert]

I, however, do not favor the legalization of marijuana as libertarians do. There is a popular political saying that "a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged". In the case of marijuana, perhaps it can be said that a conservative is a libertarian who has had to face the reality of drug-related crime.

Drug-related crime grows because of the drug war thanx to prohibition driving it all underground and raising the cost of addictive substances. Also, tossing marijuana into the mix as far as drug-related crimes is absolutely absurd. Even with prohibition, pot's not that expensive and not addictive. I guarantee no one is committing crimes just so they can buy pot, at least no one who wouldn't be committing the crimes anyway for other reasons. Pot is competitive price-wise with alcohol. If they're committing crimes for pot, there are probably more committing crimes to buy alcohol.

[FTL_Ian]

While pot may be affordable compared to cocaine, let's make a quick comparison to a legal product:

6oz of tobacco: $11
that's less than $2 per ounce.

1oz of mid-grade pot is going for about $150 in Keene.  That's 7500% more than the tobacco.

[dalebert]

It's a good point, Ian. The drug war definitely makes things more expensive and contributes to so-called drug-related crime. Still, I think it's important to bear in mind that an oz of pot goes a lot further than an oz of tobacco. Tobacco is dangerously addictive and unhealthy and people tend to crave it all day long whereas even a "heavy" pot smoker is probably only smoking once or twice a day.

[Luke S]

I, however, do not favor the legalization of marijuana as libertarians do. There is a popular political saying that "a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged". In the case of marijuana, perhaps it can be said that a conservative is a libertarian who has had to face the reality of drug-related crime.

Drug-related crime grows because of the drug war thanx to prohibition driving it all underground and raising the cost of addictive substances. Also, tossing marijuana into the mix as far as drug-related crimes is absolutely absurd. Even with prohibition, pot's not that expensive and not addictive. I guarantee no one is committing crimes just so they can buy pot, at least no one who wouldn't be committing the crimes anyway for other reasons. Pot is competitive price-wise with alcohol. If they're committing crimes for pot, there are probably more committing crimes to buy alcohol.

No, that's not all of what happens. It's part of what happens, yes. They commit crimes to get money to buy pot. But what also happens is that they smoke pot, and then it messes with their heads, and causes them to commit crimes. For example, I knew a guy at college who would smoke pot, and then whenever he would smoke pot, he would sometimes hit people who tried to talk to him or who went anywhere near him, i.e. committing the crime of assault and battery.

And in the Netherlands, in Amsterdam, where it's legal and where I've been, it along with heroin causes people to throw bottles and other garbage all over the streets, so the streets are nothing but a great big mess of bottles and garbage. I saw it with my own eyes.

I don't want the streets of every city in the USA (including my own!) to be a mess of bottles and garbage, and I don't want to have a horde of people that go around hitting other people (including me!). So that is why I, along with what is apparently the majority of Americans, oppose legalization of pot and other illegal drugs.

[dalebert]

That's just not rational, Luke. You're taking anecdotal evidence at best and connecting things that just aren't necessarily, or even likely to be connected. Do you have any idea the percentage of Americans that smoke pot? It's quite high (I bet someone he remembers it) and yet we don't have garbage in streets. There's a local cop here who testified that alcohol is often tied to violent behavior but pot almost always makes people more passive. Pot is just not tied in anyway statistically with violent behavior. It's just not; not even close. It's like this- initiating violence is always wrong and throwing garbage in the streets is wrong regardless of why you do them.

Honestly Luke, IMHO the FSP is not for you. Read the statement of intent and the pledge. If you signed the pledge, you'd be lying. You have a very statist and authoritarian view of the government's role in our lives. You're not even libertarian-leaning. It wouldn't be helpful at all to us, again IMHO, for you to move here and get involved with the FSP. I suspect you would be frequently at odds with others here. Supporting the drug war is probably one of the most harmful things an individual can do for this country right up there with supporting other needless wars. I would not even want you as my friend or as an employee with that kind of aggressive attitude; much less as an ally for achieving liberty. Your morals seem inconsistent and I just don't feel like you would be trustworthy. I can only speak for myself, of course, but that's my honest opinion. I have frequently said I prefer quality to quantity when it comes to activists.

Of course, attitudes do change. Mine has changed a lot over the years. If I met a 20-year old version of myself now, I'd probably not like that guy very much. Maybe if you stick around in the forum a while, your attitude will change as well. Of course, you could try posting your thoughts on the drug war and immigration in some of the other forums started by FSPers and see what kind of response you get. How soon were you considering moving?

For now at least, I would encourage you to consider Montana if you're big thing is Real ID. Whatever you end up doing, I wish you much success in most of your endeavors, other than pushing statism.

[Luke S]

Dalebert, I did not sign the pledge, and I was not considering moving to New Hampshire. I might move to Massachusetts, since the guy who is in charge of helping people get jobs at my college after graduation has said that I'll probably be stuck in Mass., San Fransisco, or Silicon Valley since my main things are math, statistics, and computers. But I was not considering moving to NH to be involved with the FSP.

The reason why I am here, as I believe I explained at the beginning, is that I saw a video of people burning U.N. flags, and at the end of the video, it said "nhfree.com". And there was also another video of people burning Social Security cards, and in the video description of that video, it also listed "nhfree.com". I was really excited about the burning of the UN flags and social security cards, since I hate the UN and Social Security with the flame of a thousand suns, so I went to nhfree.com, and here I am.

As for Montana, I have no doubt that Montana is the best state in the Union. I love it so much, and I wish so badly I could live there. If I could live there it would make all my dreams come true, but the guy who helps everybody get jobs at my college has been telling everybody that there is a job crunch, and so even though we are all talented, we will pretty much just have to take what we can get, and he said to me that quite frankly, I will probably be stuck in San Fransisco, Silicon Valley, or Massachusetts, since my main things are math, statistics, and computers.

As for the FSP, I have no doubt that you are right that it is not for me. And you are certainly right that I am not libertarian leaning (I am a traditional conservative).
But the FSP is not why I came here. I came here because I saw videos of people burning UN flags and Social Security cards, and I was so moved by the valiant stand that those people took against the tyranny of the UN and of Social(ist) Security, that I went to the website that was advertised at the end of the videos, which was nhfree.com. Then I wound up on nhfree.com/forum, which is here.
And I keep seeing more and more videos against Real ID (which I also hate) coming from Dave Ridley, and I keep seeing more Dave Ridley videos of people standing up for their second amendment rights. That stuff really inspires me, and keeps causing me to keep coming here, i.e., to nhfree.com/forum. So in other words, every time I see people on Dave Ridley's videos standing up against Real ID, and standing up for their second amendment rights, I will keep coming to nhfree.com. Until you guys kick me off, I guess.

[d_goddard]

Luke,

NHUnderground is not the FSP.
If you want to see government smaller than it is, the FSP is for you.

If there are areas where you still want government control, you are in the same boat that EVERY PERSON ON THIS FORUM, even the radical anarchists, were at one point.

If, on the other hand, one specific area of disagreement makes you think that you cannot possibly work with or live near these people, then you're correct -- FSP is not for you. Neither is civilized society of an kind. Buy a lot of land and go self-sufficient. Peace be with you.

[Free libertarian]

...I'll try to catch up with this thread. I just got back from committing marijuana induced violent crimes and throwing bottles in the street...now where did I put my GOD DAMN bong!!??? Ooooh I get so violent when I forget where I put that!