When is the "Shire Silver" Going to Come Out?

[Luke S]

So if somebody needs change after a purchase, then what happens? Since the smallest unit of Shire Silver I see on here is 10 oz, which is worth something like $200 in USD, that's a hell of a big amount for the smallest unit.

[dalebert]

What are you talking about? There are oz units.

[ReverendRyan]

So if somebody needs change after a purchase, then what happens? Since the smallest unit of Shire Silver I see on here is 10 oz, which is worth something like $200 in USD, that's a hell of a big amount for the smallest unit.

The first units produced will be 1 troy ounce (~31.1 gram) and 10 gram (~.32 troy oz).

And you wouldn't "pay" or "purchase" with them, it's a barter form. If, for example, you agree with someone that your 1 oz is worth about $30 and the item or service you want is worth $20, you can trade that ounce for said product or service and a 10 dollar bill.

Of course, this will eventually be a moot point, as if successful, larger and smaller pieces can be produced, and historically 1/8 oz of silver is small enough to handle nearly all day-to-day transactions. Or if the market demands it, 1/4 oz copper can be used as pocket change.

[PattyLee loves dogs]

Or if the market demands it, 1/4 oz copper can be used as pocket change.

There are these things called silver dimes... for that matter, there's still all the silver coins we need. Why make new ones when the coin shops are full of old?

[K. Darien Freeheart]

I've been told that bars as opposed to rounds are less preferable because they're more easily tampered with. I'm assuming this is probably more of an issue in the realm of 100 oz bars as opposed to partial 10gm - 5 oz bars. I own no silver at this moment, but REALLY want to start buying small amounts soon. I see that bars are "cheaper" (in a USD/XAU transaction) for similar weights over rounds.

Will Shire Silver have any information for those still thinking in terms of USD (or those thinking in silver but not having done transactions) on how to handle silver? For instance, most stores have those little markers that change color on fake bills. For the liberty minded, we know to measure the weight and know certain branding that's trustworthy, but for someone handling silver for the sole purpose of getting a discount (i.e. I've seen several retailers offer 5% off a purchase price with payment in silver over USD) are there any SS resources to test purity of a round or bar?

While I know this may ALSO be part of the idea, are there (going to be) resources for using non-SS branded silver? For those willing to accept it as payment for private debts, the lack of SS branding may turn people off from accepting generic rounds or bars (Pan am, for isntance) and I can't see how that would be much better than a retailer refusing to accept any form of payment that isn't branded "US Government". The goal is to teach people to understand money, and see silver as money, but there are many people who may be willing to trade that simply can't look past branding.

[Luke S]

So if somebody needs change after a purchase, then what happens? Since the smallest unit of Shire Silver I see on here is 10 oz, which is worth something like $200 in USD, that's a hell of a big amount for the smallest unit.

The first units produced will be 1 troy ounce (~31.1 gram) and 10 gram (~.32 troy oz).

And you wouldn't "pay" or "purchase" with them, it's a barter form. If, for example, you agree with someone that your 1 oz is worth about $30 and the item or service you want is worth $20, you can trade that ounce for said product or service and a 10 dollar bill.

Of course, this will eventually be a moot point, as if successful, larger and smaller pieces can be produced, and historically 1/8 oz of silver is small enough to handle nearly all day-to-day transactions. Or if the market demands it, 1/4 oz copper can be used as pocket change.

Yeah, you're right. The smallest unit is 10g, not 10 oz. Sorry I misread.

[ReverendRyan]

I've been told that bars as opposed to rounds are less preferable because they're more easily tampered with. I'm assuming this is probably more of an issue in the realm of 100 oz bars as opposed to partial 10gm - 5 oz bars.

These aren't bars in that sense. I guess you could call them rectangular rounds.

Will Shire Silver have any information for those still thinking in terms of USD (or those thinking in silver but not having done transactions) on how to handle silver?

The website that's being worked on will have both the market value of the metal and the suggested trade value of the piece, and pertinent information.

For instance, most stores have those little markers that change color on fake bills.

They don't work. It's just an iodine pen. One of the biggest wide-spread scams today.

For the liberty minded, we know to measure the weight and know certain branding that's trustworthy, but for someone handling silver for the sole purpose of getting a discount (i.e. I've seen several retailers offer 5% off a purchase price with payment in silver over USD) are there any SS resources to test purity of a round or bar?

That would be up to the person accepting it. One of the purposes behind a unique design is to be easily recognizeable and a trusted medium of exchange.

While I know this may ALSO be part of the idea, are there (going to be) resources for using non-SS branded silver? For those willing to accept it as payment for private debts, the lack of SS branding may turn people off from accepting generic rounds or bars (Pan am, for isntance) and I can't see how that would be much better than a retailer refusing to accept any form of payment that isn't branded "US Government". The goal is to teach people to understand money, and see silver as money, but there are many people who may be willing to trade that simply can't look past branding.

Let the market decide. A more unified design and familiarity is just a means to an end, in my opinion.

[dalebert]

For instance, most stores have those little markers that change color on fake bills.

They don't work. It's just an iodine pen. One of the biggest wide-spread scams today.

If you wanna have some fun, and you're patient, spray some of your big bills with a bit of starch. Those pens will identify it as counterfeit.

[K. Darien Freeheart]

If you wanna have some fun, and you're patient, spray some of your big bills with a bit of starch. Those pens will identify it as counterfeit.

Makes a TON of sense now. I use iodine to test for starch conversion when I'm brewing. Light bulb.

[K. Darien Freeheart]

These aren't bars in that sense. I guess you could call them rectangular rounds.

So when I hear "bars" I should think "large quantity" and less "shape"? So a 1 ounce "rectangular round" is accepted by you guys as readily as a 1 ounce round... round is. If I can get confirmation on that you guys will have just reduced my premium. I'm looking to buy a few ounces in the next few days and the cost above spot is noticeably higher for rounds.

They don't work. It's just an iodine pen. One of the biggest wide-spread scams today.

Okay, so as someone who has no experience handling silver, is the only way to assess the value of silver "on-the-spot" is to accept only from sellers I believe have an acceptable level of trust and only accept brands of silver with a mark/name I trust? That makes sense, really, if there's no practical way to quickly assess the fineness of a piece. The iodine pen thing, plus a few other things, makes me believe that (with as much as can be said of a FRN) the bill I'm being handed isn't counterfeit. I'm now aware that some of those measures are worthless tests (the point is to educate!) and there's ALWAYS some risk in doing business. I'm just wondering as a novice what tools are at my disposal other than "common sense" I suppose.

Let the market decide. A more unified design and familiarity is just a means to an end, in my opinion.

I'm all for competition. I suppose I'm essentially asking the opposite - how can we encourage competition. As I see it, the SS brand is designed to be an assurance of quality, to provide a sense of familiarity and a few other things. The goal of all "alternative currency" systems is to get people to think about the money they use. Part of the confusion I initially had over the Liberty Dollar (and part of why I see it as a ripoff, honestly) is the emphasis on "this currency is an alternative" rather than "this piece is silver, which holds value because it's silver. This specific piece is marked in a way to be easily assessed in comparison to the USD, but it's value comes from being silver". I don't see how the idea of educating people about money is being accomplished if you're just trading one brand (the USD) for another (SS) and counting on brand recognition alone to be the alternative.

Fast forward a bit to when the SS IS an establish brand of competing currency. Someone has a stock of silver bullion (in many various imprints other than SS) and due to SS's established brand and underlying message of education and independence wants to have this bullion reminted as SS rounds. Is this process something that the "open source currency" nature would address (i.e. home refinement and reminting) or is this something to be addressed later, possibly in the form of an entreprenuer offering bullion "buyback" in exchange for SS rounds? I know nothing of silver really, so my questions come from the assumption that if it's feasible to IMPRINT silver at home, it might also be possible to refine it from home too. I hope that makes sense...

[porcupine kate]

Right now there are kits to test if it is silver but no the purity of the silver. 
I'm still trying to find something that will tell you the purity of the silver.

[ReverendRyan]

So when I hear "bars" I should think "large quantity" and less "shape"? So a 1 ounce "rectangular round" is accepted by you guys as readily as a 1 ounce round... round is.

Correct.

Okay, so as someone who has no experience handling silver, is the only way to assess the value of silver "on-the-spot" is to accept only from sellers I believe have an acceptable level of trust and only accept brands of silver with a mark/name I trust? That makes sense, really, if there's no practical way to quickly assess the fineness of a piece.

Pretty much. People who deal in silver a lot can tell fineness by the sound (think tuning fork).

Fast forward a bit to when the SS IS an establish brand of competing currency. Someone has a stock of silver bullion (in many various imprints other than SS) and due to SS's established brand and underlying message of education and independence wants to have this bullion reminted as SS rounds. Is this process something that the "open source currency" nature would address (i.e. home refinement and reminting) or is this something to be addressed later, possibly in the form of an entreprenuer offering bullion "buyback" in exchange for SS rounds?

Both. But hopefully the end result is eventually it reinforces the idea of metals as money, and people get more comfortable with using generic silver.

[toowm]

Right now there are kits to test if it is silver but no the purity of the silver. 
I'm still trying to find something that will tell you the purity of the silver.

What about a touchstone?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchstone

[ReverendRyan]

Right now there are kits to test if it is silver but no the purity of the silver. 
I'm still trying to find something that will tell you the purity of the silver.

What about a touchstone?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchstone

Destructive, and inaccurate.

[KBCraig]

Verification of metals will always go back to Archimedes' solution: weight and volume.

Unless any alloyed metal's density is identical or very close to the precious metal, lack of purity will be apparent.