How many here are atheists?

[Kat Kanning]

God has revealed it's self to me.

I am to be the leader of all men on this planet and any planet that I can concore.
I am to be a benevolent master... if I want.
All the world is to respect and obey my thoughts, words and deeds, because I am the conduit through which God flows.

God has given these words to you: "lfvbvwervlevn ulhiriv rvhuvhir  dnx, iu49 ic9nc kk erh  vnlir  mc;oir".
These words are to be followed without further interpretation.

The wrath of God will be on all who resist.

The first thing I want is some of that Schnergenburger Chocolate.

Wow!  I was an atheist, but no more! 

[Jacobus]

If you define God as an external entity sitting up in the clouds somewhere pulling strings, then consider me an atheist.

However, I do not call myself an atheist because I believe that the above definition of God (or any other like it) is a straw man.  Rather, I feel God as my own presence and consciousness.

[Kat Kanning]

You do look like god.

[Lloyd Danforth]

yeah, the santa clausy god

[Raineyrocks]

they burn crosses on a christian's front lawn.
what do they burn on an agnostic's front lawn?

a question mark!
bahhhh haahahahahah
get it?

I get it!  Good one!

[Raineyrocks]

I believe in all those gods.    Since the dawn of time, man has struggled to deal with the infinite, and has come up with complex mythologies to express something that is beyond human ability to even conceptualize, let alone put to words.

Hi Caleb!

Have you ever read The Trivialization of God?  If not, I haven't either but I know what it's basically about from someone that did read it and it's about the way some people try to relate to God on humanistic terms which is impossible to do.  Anyways that's what your post reminded me of.

[Vitruvian]

Because you rely on the thought that if I cannot conceive or understand something, it must therefore not exist. This is nonsense, because it essentially argues that my personal limitations set the boundaries as to what is ontologically real.

My concern is definition, not comprehension.  If the term God cannot be defined, then one could substitute any string of nonsense characters, equally indefinable, for God in the claim, "God exists," and the result would be equally (in)valid.

[BaneOfTheBeast]

I do not believe in the traditional sense - some guy in heaven who grants miracles and who loves you unconditionally (yet you have to march off to church every week to ask his forgiveness?)... I think modern God and Bible has been altered and manipulated through time, and the current form presented to the masses  - I do not believe in.
I do however believe in a Godsource,  so to speak. A divine presence in everyone and thing.
Has anyone seen the Zeitgeist movie?

[FTL_Ian]

atheist

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1):

a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

By this definition I am an atheist.

However, if I believe that we are extensions of the energy of the universe, existing on the leading edge of thought, by that definition we are all "God".  Would I still be an atheist?

[Raineyrocks]

What does anyone think of this explanation that I found someplace on the internet awhile back and I posted it on another thread a little while ago I just figured it would be easier to repost it than redirect everybody.

Science vs. God

"Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ." The
atheist professor of philosophy paused before his class and then asked one
of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student answered.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?" !

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil".

The professor grinned knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considered for
a moment.

"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and
you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you
could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student did not answer, so the professor continued. "He doesn't,
does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he
prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer
that one?"

The student remained silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He took a sip of water
from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella, Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student didn't hesitate on this! one. " No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student answered: "From...God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in
this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created
everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the
principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Without allowing the student to answer, the professor continued: "Is
there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do
they exist in this world?"

The student answered: "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student did not answer again, so the professor repeated his
question. "Who created them? There was still no answer. Suddenly the
lecturer broke away to pace in front of the classroom. The class was
mesmerized.

"Tell me," he continued onto another student. "Do you believe in
Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice was confident: "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stoped pacing. "Science says you have five senses that
you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen
Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him"

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever actually felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelled
your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God
for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable
protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that,
son?"

"Nothing," the student replied. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeated. "And that is the problem
science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stood quietly for a moment, before asking a question of
his own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turned to face the student, obviously interested. The
room suddenly became very quiet. The student began to explain.

"You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat,
unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have
anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no
heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise
we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.
Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits
energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.
Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is
only a word we use to describe the absence of heat.
We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because
heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of
it."

There was silence across the room. A pen dropped somewhere in the
classroom and sounded like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replied without hesitation. "What is night if it
isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the
absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light,
flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and
it's called darkness, isn't it?
That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If
it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?" The
professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. "So what point
are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to
start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face could not hide his surprise this time. "Flawed?
Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains.
"You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad
God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we
can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.
It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less
fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be
ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death
is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved
from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man,
yes, of course I do"

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor began to shake his head, still smiling, as he realized
where the argument was going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not
teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class was in uproar. The student remained silent until the
commotion had subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student,
let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looked around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who
has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class broke out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt
the professor's brain, touched or smelled the professor's brain? No one
appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of
empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due
respect, sir. So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room was silent. The professor just stared at the student,
his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seemed like an eternity, the old man answered. "I
guess you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with
life," the student continued. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course, there is. We see
it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in
the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These
manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil! does not exist sir, or at least
it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just
like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence
of God.

God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man
does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that
results when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no
light."

The professor sat down.

[Vitruvian]

Science vs.God

The straw man cometh.

[Raineyrocks]

Science vs.God

The straw man cometh.

I don't understand, what do you mean?

[Caleb]

atheist

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1):

a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

By this definition I am an atheist.

However, if I believe that we are extensions of the energy of the universe, existing on the leading edge of thought, by that definition we are all "God".  Would I still be an atheist?

One of the classical attempts to define God is to say that he is "omnipresent" ... "in all" as the Bible puts it.

I wouldn't say that we are all God because pantheism to me denies selfhood, but there is no doubt that we are interconnected with the divine presence, that it exists in us.

[Caleb]

Because you rely on the thought that if I cannot conceive or understand something, it must therefore not exist. This is nonsense, because it essentially argues that my personal limitations set the boundaries as to what is ontologically real.

My concern is definition, not comprehension.  If the term God cannot be defined, then one could substitute any string of nonsense characters, equally indefinable, for God in the claim, "God exists," and the result would be equally (in)valid.

But if he cannot be comprehended, then he cannot be defined. I don't know why you are uncomfortable with the thought that God is not an intellectual exercise, and that it is only through experience that we can approach him. All of human knowledge is ultimately derived through experience. Some of it we understand, some of it we do not.

[Caleb]

I believe in all those gods.    Since the dawn of time, man has struggled to deal with the infinite, and has come up with complex mythologies to express something that is beyond human ability to even conceptualize, let alone put to words.

Hi Caleb!

Have you ever read The Trivialization of God?  If not, I haven't either but I know what it's basically about from someone that did read it and it's about the way some people try to relate to God on humanistic terms which is impossible to do.  Anyways that's what your post reminded me of.

I haven't read it, no. But I do think God has been trivialized by modern Christianity, many forms of which have struck me as more of a satire of religion than anything else.